is my employer fair to decline this? Would yours be the same?

[amazonsl]

I’m not asking strictly speaking, obviously I know legally they can decline it. I’m a single mum (no relevance to the company obviously) with one dc and due to go back to work when they are one. I wanted to use my holiday to work three days a week for 6 months. This would have massively reduced nursery fees and would have helped me adjust. We work from home a lot but condensed working (4 days squeezed into 3) was also declined. Just wondered if other places would have declined this too? It’s a progressional place and I do have quite a bit of responsibility but I’m not at the top, either. I’m going to struggle so much as they’ve said I could go back four days but that doesn’t save much on nursery and im
not sure I will cope!

In any case, you shouldn’t use your leave this way. Most of us need to take leave for a week really in order to refresh and have some quality time off. Even if they granted it, I would be reluctant to use my leave this way and sacrifice a proper break.

I'm pretty sure my wife did something like this, it's down to the employer but unfortunate. You would save the same amount if you had a holiday block before you started back properly.

It wouldn't go down well at my business either , mostly because I think its a bad plan for you, you're not a full time employee that's fully integrated back in a job you haven't been doing for a year , for next 6 months, others will be covering for you or you will simply be out of the loop still , and in 6 months time, then you expect that to change, all while then you have an 18month old who will need a whole new 5 day nursery routine and you haven't a day holidays left, and no future cost saving. You are on a good salary, and work seems very reasonable, but your plan is too shortsighted isn't in their interest either, is there an offering of a permanent part time position you can consider? I'd suggest 3 months of 4 days is a reasonable adjustment on their part

I was allowed to do this

I wouldn’t be allowed either. Due to return from mat leave on 1 aug and the most holiday I can carry over is 4 days. I need to add it on to my mat leave or be paid for it.

My commemt was assuming that you've already accrued a lot of annual leave you haven't had the chance to spend during the year you were on maternity (so you effectively have an extra 20-30 days you need to use up in addition to your new year's allocation of 20-30 days) - if you were starting as a brand new person and wanted to allocate days you hadn't yet earned to alter your working pattern that might be different, but otherwise as I've said - you need to use these extra days somewhere and pre planning shorter weeks for the first few months is a very common way of doing it everywhere I've worked, and usually encouraged by the company rather than the alternative of coming back full time for a few months and then just as you've got a full caseload and are back in the swing of things, taking a whole 6 weeks off because you need to use up your leave!

I successfully negotiated 2 days WFH. The reasons I applied were for a better work life balance, reduced childcare fees, and 2/5 of a reduction on my petrol and wear and tear. (plus also being able to do a laundry load here and there, being able to prep dinner on my lunch break, scoot off for the school run twice a day etc)

None of that was mentioned to my employer apart from the first reason - because my personal stuff is of no concern.

What they want to know is can I fully do the job they employ me to do while working from home 2 days a week. I presented a case to the MD explaining my workload, explaining why certain days were best to be office based, explaining how it won't impact my colleagues and anything else I could think of. It stands to me that during the pandemic I remained punctual to my kitchen table as I would to the office, I even worked longer for them from home.

So you need to present it in a way that demonstrates why it's not a cost to the business (or even go further and demonstrate a savings for the business if you can)

I was allowed both of those things. Large company, I’m middle management. Went back three days a week for three months and then compressed week.

I was clear about how I would make it work though. How I would manage/prioritise my work load in the three days / compressed week and suggested quarterly review meetings to ensure it was working for everyone. I sometimes have to work the day off for example to meet deadlines. Maybe once a month for a few hours. My MIL helps on those days.

If you’ve detailed what your contingency is, how you would make it work and how you intend to prioritise your workload in your proposed working schedule, then they should seriously consider your request… assuming it’s feasible of course.

Long time ago but I did 3 months on half days using holiday for the half days. I was there every day so could cover lots of my job, it would have been harder for my boss to cover for me being off for six weeks holiday. As an HR manager I've done lots of different flexible things for people returning to work, getting good staff back to work is important and if it can work with the job it is worth employers being flexible.

It depends on the company iv done it in the past but where I work there is a lot of staff and a almost 24/7 workplace. However I can't see this working in a small 9-5 office environment.

Mine has approved exactly what you’ve asked for except I already worked 5 days in 4. Instead of taking my AL in a chunk I have been approved to take 2 and then 1 day a week until it runs out. I do carry my own caseload though and have no projects that are dependent on group work. They were keen on me dropping hours, not sure why!

A good employer does what it can to retain good staff, but it has to be within reason for the job/task of the organisation. Mine has made the accommodation you're asking for. We're a large team with most not working the stanard work week and we manage these many unique arrangments just fine.

Mine allowed me to do exactly what you have asked for (similar salary etc). I provided a plan of how I would make it work, and my boss decided it was easier to know when the mountain of holiday i had accrued would be taken and better that she had retained a good employee. The organisation was super supportive too.

It would probably be refused at my employer.

Have you checked what your net pay will be @amazonsl on 4 days? You should get tax free childcare care too.

I do 4 days and net it wasn’t much different to full time as I paid loads less tax (40-20%), less pension (went from 8.5% to 6.5%) and also got child benefit. When that was factored in with childcare I only lost about £200 a month but gained a lot of work life balance.

they said one day holiday a week was enough and two would mean I couldn’t be as involved in projects as I would need to be.

Going from 5 days a week to 3 is a huge reduction and puts pressure on the project teams and project timelines. Even if you work longer hours during a few days, if you are not there on a Friday for example and it all kicks off, the project could suffer.

It would not fly at my workplace, one day a week maybe, but not 2.

My old workplace allowed this for me but we had a big team and we all covered each others work so it wasn’t like it was my work and mine only. If you have a high paid role I guess you have more responsibility so may be different

My workplace would and does allow condensed hours. I work 5 days over 4 and a colleague works 5 days over 3, so very long days.

However we work on cases not projects so as long as you are clearing the right number per week it is fine.

We are a team of 24 with some part time and some full time too, so it works.

It is not an option for anyone senior however.

I was allowed to do that when I returned from mat leave, but it was for 2 months, not 6. I'm not sure 6 months would have been approved.

Mine denied both requests very frustrating.

Defo wouldn’t work in my organisation. Even when we had a team member doing a regular half day it was so disruptive to the rhythm of the team, to clients and colleagues trying to reach them and having to be directed to someone else. And then the day they’d spend complaining about all the catching up they had to do. And at £60k, I’d be expecting team members to be putting in occasional long hours anyway, so one member on compressed hours would feel inequitable to the rest of the team.

Grin and bear it I think while planning your escape to work that suits family life more. At least it's a good job market generally at the moment.

Most workplaces I know would refuse that outright. It's a nightmare to manage and cover for continuity. From their point of view a reasonable adjustment for flexible working would be a 0.6-0.8 job share and you take the reduction in days worked and salary. You're either FT or PT, trying to work a limbo position in-between isn't fair on your employer. It's also not any good for you, because you're never going to have any actual holiday.

Well you have the right to request and they have the right to decline. If they decline, it's supposed to be for a substantial business reason, which they should provide to you. You should probably also have a right to appeal the decision if you could demonstrate how it would work in practice?

Is there a time limit on your taking the annual leave, or are you likely to lose at least some of it?

It depends on your job and whether it can be done part time really. I would accommodate it in my teams if I could but it depends on business needs.

When I went back to work after may leave I used my a/l a couple of days a week for the first few months but they had already agreed the part time working pattern, it just meant I got paid full time for a bit longer. Your employer obviously doesn't want you part time.

I can’t offer any guidance on the specifics, but just want to say that you might actually find it to be a blessing in disguise. I’m also in a professional role and when I went back after mat leave I did 3 days a week. I hated it! Coming in after 4 days (incl the weekend) off each week meant the first day was just trying to firefight issues that had arisen in my off 2 days. Meetings with colleagues on the 3 days I was in took up a huge amount of time, such that I didn’t feel like I could get much actual work done and I started to resent meeting time wasters and feeling stressed about how to get the actual work done, which I’d then have to do at night. Overall, I enjoyed my job less and felt more stressed.

I switched to 4 days a week within a few months and it was much, much, better. Not just at work but at home - I was less stressed and enjoyed time with my DC much more as a result. Also, I love my job and working a bit more and a bit better restored my sense of individuality and independence, which can often be lost when you have a baby.

My circumstances were different as I am not a single mum, so I know your situation and needs are different and I don’t want to underestimate that, but I thought it might be helpful to hear about the non-financial positives of working 4 days a week instead of 3 in case you find that you have no choice but to do so.

Best of luck, OP.