To be annoyed that private school parents are demonised?

[Imsorryyoufeelthatway]

Starting this threat to vent and as an antidote to the Closing all private schools would benefit state schools thread. In short, I'm a bit fed up with private school parents being bashed for buying a better education for their children, while parents who 'don't believe in private education' and spend a fortune on homes/second homes/rental properties in catchment areas for 'good' state schools then another fortune on tutors seem to get off scot free.

I'm also fed up with private school parents all being lumped in the same category. We're not all selfish, mega-wealthy, Bullingdon Club (or female equivalent, if there was one...) alumni; many of us are ordinary people (I'm a working class lass from a council estate whose parents worked as cleaners and in warehouses) who've worked bloody hard to be able to afford a better start in life for our children than we had. We were the first people in our families to go to university (on full grants, when they existed), the first to have careers not just jobs, and the first to own our own homes. No-one has ever handed us a penny – my DH got the train to university with £4.50 in his pocket and had to get a job straight away to buy food. No bank account, no trust fund, no-one paying his rent. We've managed to achieve social mobility against the odds, yet we're not allowed to celebrate this because we've chosen to invest in our children's future rather than over-priced property in 'good' state school catchment areas.

Yes, we all know that private schools are a major cause of inequality. Parents like us have literally lived and breathed that inequality our whole lives and we'd do anything to prevent our children having to do the same. We think that all children should have access to high quality education in safe, inspirational environments where they can achieve their potential, not just ours. But most state schools in the UK just cannot meet this requirement. We also know that if catchment areas for state schools were mixed-up, and the schools in deprived areas had an influx of children from more affluent areas and vice versa, then this would likely make things more equal over time. But our children are not part of a social experiment. In short, if those of us who had difficult starts in life and went to terrible schools choose to work our arses off so our children don't have to, can't we be given some credit?

So please, the next time you're tempted to lump a private school parents into the same category and give them a bashing, take a moment to consider their reasons and background. Rant over.

I think the poster was joking.

Does anybody choose a school for their child as some kind of act of public service? My memories of my supposedly very good local state school was the children of high flying professionals getting picked for everything and winning everything, or standing at the front of the class reciting their times tables perfectly. If I felt like cr*p all the time, imagine how the kids being constantly moved around in care or without a place to do their homework felt.

I don't blame the teachers - they had 30 in the class and no teaching assitant. But I don't think 'everyone in together' means everybody gets the same.

I think the poster was joking.

You haven't been on Mumsnet very long, have you?

If it were anyone other than @Xenia, I would assume that they were joking.

It certainly won't be happening any time soon, that's for sure so I had better put that plan on the back burner. As most students never pay their student loans back those very very few of us parents who pay university fees and whose children have no student loan - this applies to my 5 children - are also saving the nation a small fortune too never mind the very large amounts of tax the very few net payers into the system make. of course some people dislike higher earner too but there you go....

OK. Maybe she wasn't joking! But what she says has some truth to it. My children only cost the state when they go to the doctor or dentist. I pay a lot of tax. Don't receive child benefit. I don't resent it - people need that money - and I don't think I deserve a medal; but I also don't think I'm responsible for children poverty, the crisis in the NHS, the failure in education, or ant other government policy; and I also don't think I'm disgusting and heartless, or any of the other things I've been called on MN.

Crikey we can't all be net tax payers! I am, but recognise I am rare (and lucky to be in that position). Clearly, judging by the wave of industrial unrest out there at the moment a lot more people would like to be earning more and paying more tax. But theyre not. What they are doing though are jobs which matter to all of us.
I'm glad you don't resent paying tax @Dobby123456. That is so refreshing to hear. I think @Xenia does though.

I wasn't suggesting that everybody should be a net tax payer! People are doing important jobs, looking after their families, contributing to the economy. I'd much rather pay tax than have awful roads, children with bad teeth and people not able to access health care etc. What's a bit annoying (and what this thread is about) is the idea tha I'm not 'doing my bit' and don't give a stuff about anybody else because I put my kids into private school.

Parents told me they'd tried the state system, but there are so many needy kids in our area that their kids just weren't a priority. So, my thinking is, the state can look after those needy kids, if I want my own kids to get some TLC, I have to pay for it - and why shouldn't I pay? I have the money and my kids are my responsibility - not the state's. I know a lot of people won't agree with that thinking, but with the education system to short of resources at the moment, that's the conlusion I came to.

Since you made the distinction that you didn't resent paying tax, @Dobby123456 , my comment wasn't about you. Except to say yay that you don't begrudge it. Which I hope I communicated. It's when private school parents tailor their argument to say Oh but I'm doing a noble thing (like Xenia did. And she definitely wasn't joking!). That sticks in craws somewhat.

On a side note, I've just spotted some of the pop ups that appear around this thread - Repton for one. Ironically says a lot about MN's demographic!

Oh, sorry, I wasn't sure if you were being sarcastic or not when you said you were glad I didn't resent paying tax. I'm very fortunate to have a job that I enjoy and also a good salary.

I certainly couldn't afford Repton 😂

I don't believe in buying privilege. My DC all state educated and went to top universities due to sheer hard work.

You do realise that private school can't actually buy you the grade, right? The kid still has to do the work.

A friend of mine is a teacher at secondary private and says the most annoying thing is the parents who think they are buying an A grade. Just won't accept that their child just doesn't have the motivation or ability in that subject.

Given the NHS is not available to many people and there is virtually no NHS dentistry for many children these days I do resent paying tax (particularly as I have no savings etc etc) and my state pension after tax when I get it I bet will hardly cover the council tax and I will work until I die.
Even just yesterday my son was given (no choice) a doctor's appointment at the GP wen he is at work. Our GP used to be quite good at giving working people the first or last of the day appointments but since covid the systems are very different. The very rude receptionist said take it or leave it and if you cannot do the one she gave him you wait a month! My other son travels for 3 hours by public transport each way back home to use his original dentist. I would rather just be allowed to take 20% off my tax bill and not use the so-called "National " health service.

This.. I see repeatedly around me high performing kids both from private and state schools going places and doing well. The kids who sadly suffer the most are from broken families, disinterested parents, and of course special needs kids lacking support due to poverty or circumstances. There is always going to be a state and private education system. The real wins are when prestigious universities and colleges are made to give equal treatment to all students applying and offer full scholarships to deserving kids who need it the most

OK. Maybe she wasn't joking! But what she says has some truth to it

Yes, this is what you really think. You actually think that being wealthy enough to buy your children a huge advantage in life makes you a 'hero'. Fucking hell.

No, that is not what I actually think at all, which I've made quite clear. You want that to be what I think so that you can feel justified in your own bitterness and self-righteousness.

Why would universities need to be forced to give equal treatment to all applicants? Why would academics (a very left wing profession) be at all impressed by what school you went to?

DS had an interview at an Oxbridge college where he was asked which school he went to. When he replied (an unknown comp in the back end of beyond) the interviewer visibly rolled his eyes and asked how on earth DS thought he would cope with the work.
He was interviewed elsewhere too and got a place. But there was an academic who very definitely had a problem with the sort of education DS had received. Fortunately DS was pig headed and knew his worth!
Sadly sh2t like that still happens. Hopefully less frequently these days. And of course the system of getting interviewed at more than one college is helpful.

You should have complained. The interviewer should not have needed to ask what school they went to (they've got a reference from the school, so they know what school it is!) and certainly shouldn't have suggested that he couldn't cope with the work. If he got the grades to be called for interview this should not have been in question. I'm very sorry this happened to your DS.

I should have. But he was 18. It was up to him to do so. i wouldn't have dreamt of interfering. When he got home from the 3 night stay he was rattled. But I think he felt he'd given a good enough account in his other interview. It's hard. You think you ought to step in. But I may even have worried that would have been counterproductive. But that first interviewer was certainly old school, old tie, and had a problem with students with a less than cut glass education. And in retrospect it would have been a disaster if he had gotten into that college and had to share tutorials with that man!

Must have been a total dinosaur! When I was there for a masters nobody I met was impressed by polish - it was sheer raw talent they were after. Of course, there were quite a few odd 'characters' who'd been through the private school system, but they'd got in because of their obvious passion for their subject, not what school they'd been to! That was over 30 years ago. Perhaps different subject, different college. Glad your DS did well in the end.

He did, thanks @Dobby123456
Strangely my DH was an undergrad there in the 80s and says he felt his route in was far smoother than DS's (from a similar educational background). He says his entry was definitely a case of raw talent being spotted and grabbed. I don't know what the figures for state/private say from 2015 compared with 1980. That's just his impression. I think though the figures need proper definition because state school can denote a whole range - from highly selective (and tutored) grammar to the boggest of bog standard!

And anyway, Oxbridge isn't necessarily a marker of success. DD is doing far 'better' than DS, and she was a reject!

Perhaps a change has occurred because the grammar school educated old guard have retired and been replaced with more private school? Just a guess. I've no idea. Would be a pity.

What is it you think I'm 'bitter' about?

It's very sweet that you think Oxbridge dons are 'very left wing' and 'not impressed by posh schools'. Haha. No one is that naive, are they?

Have you seen the tweets coming from academics at Cambridge recently? And Oxbridge isn't the only top university, you know ....

But this isn't really a conversation. It's just you expressing your prejudices and sneering at everybody who suggests the picture might not quite be the way you paint it.

OK then. What exactly is it that you meant when you said that @Xenia 's post 'had some truth to it'?

OK. Maybe she wasn't joking! But what she says has some truth to it

Which was in relation to this post:

I am happy for people to make choices. If people as said above think less of those who pay schools but themselves could afford to pay there is an argument the other way - that 500,000 children's parents (fee paying number) save the state £8k a year or whatever a state palce costs they are heroes of the nation who should perhaps get free university education in return as they have saved the state and the less well off so much money. They shgould get prizes for their good citizenship.

Which part of that is it that you think is true?