To be annoyed that private school parents are demonised?

[Imsorryyoufeelthatway]

Starting this threat to vent and as an antidote to the Closing all private schools would benefit state schools thread. In short, I'm a bit fed up with private school parents being bashed for buying a better education for their children, while parents who 'don't believe in private education' and spend a fortune on homes/second homes/rental properties in catchment areas for 'good' state schools then another fortune on tutors seem to get off scot free.

I'm also fed up with private school parents all being lumped in the same category. We're not all selfish, mega-wealthy, Bullingdon Club (or female equivalent, if there was one...) alumni; many of us are ordinary people (I'm a working class lass from a council estate whose parents worked as cleaners and in warehouses) who've worked bloody hard to be able to afford a better start in life for our children than we had. We were the first people in our families to go to university (on full grants, when they existed), the first to have careers not just jobs, and the first to own our own homes. No-one has ever handed us a penny – my DH got the train to university with £4.50 in his pocket and had to get a job straight away to buy food. No bank account, no trust fund, no-one paying his rent. We've managed to achieve social mobility against the odds, yet we're not allowed to celebrate this because we've chosen to invest in our children's future rather than over-priced property in 'good' state school catchment areas.

Yes, we all know that private schools are a major cause of inequality. Parents like us have literally lived and breathed that inequality our whole lives and we'd do anything to prevent our children having to do the same. We think that all children should have access to high quality education in safe, inspirational environments where they can achieve their potential, not just ours. But most state schools in the UK just cannot meet this requirement. We also know that if catchment areas for state schools were mixed-up, and the schools in deprived areas had an influx of children from more affluent areas and vice versa, then this would likely make things more equal over time. But our children are not part of a social experiment. In short, if those of us who had difficult starts in life and went to terrible schools choose to work our arses off so our children don't have to, can't we be given some credit?

So please, the next time you're tempted to lump a private school parents into the same category and give them a bashing, take a moment to consider their reasons and background. Rant over.

No, but It's just I find it disingenuous when people suggest they 'had no choice' but to go private, without acknowledging that most parents do not have that choice and therefore really are the ones 'with no choice' other than to educate their children themselves.

That's not what happens - many, many children either miss education entirely or are home educated as they simply can't cope in mainstream. So, no it does not benefit those children atall.

But what about all the SEN children who's parents can't afford private? Private can't be the answer to SEN because most people can't afford it.

LAs pay the fees for some SEN children to go to both mainstream and specialist independent schools. My DSs fees are paid the LA and over half of the children in his school are also funded by LAs.

I don't think anyone is saying that. Ultimately if you can afford a better option for your own child, most people would pay for it.

You have to realise that this is the exception to the rule though? The tiny number of children who get a private school place funded by the LA must have failed at mainstream and subsequently found that no other state school is adequate for them?

There will be thousands of SEN kids at state school who never crash and burn but would benefit massively from a smaller, quieter, more nurturing school environment. Hence the question, what about the SEN kids whose parents can’t afford it?

If you want to send your private school fine.

But don't whinge about how unfair life is because parents of kids at private school 'are demonised'...

...cos that's just a special kind of arrogant tone deafness.

Personally, I have never heard of that. None of the families of SEN children that I know (personally and online) who could not cope in mainstream were offered that option. The fact is it is not an option for the vast majority of families.

Stabbing a in schools are extremely rare so I don’t know what you’re on about and do you really think there is no bullying in private? You seen to have a very low opinion of state. And to answer your question it’s unethical because it is a leading contributory factor in social inequality and a lack of social mobility. Saying that I couldn’t and wouldn’t blame you for putting your children first, but like I said it’s a shame you have such a low opinion of state.

I have private health care but I accept it’s against the interests of society. Everyone should have equal access to quality health care but sadly that’s not the case. I chose to put the interests of myself and my family above society and the greater good because I’m a selfish bugger. At least I can admit it 🤷🏼‍♀️

Disgusting.

I absolutely get this and agree.. if one of dc was very sick I might just do the same if I could afford it.

It is a disgrace what is happening to our NHS.

Not sure how two people who were given full grants can say they have never received any handouts.

You’re wrong.
There are lots of people on this thread who have absolutely genuine ideological objections to the independent and selective systems.

They probably do ok in mainstream state schools. They'd sing a different tune if their kids were being failed.

No, but It's just I find it disingenuous when people suggest they 'had no choice' but to go private, without acknowledging that most parents do not have that choice and therefore really are the ones 'with no choice' other than to educate their children themselves.

These are choices, but different. Home education is also very unequal. Are you also saying that its unfair on state school kids?

Stabbing a in schools are extremely rare so I don’t know what you’re on about and do you really think there is no bullying in private? You seen to have a very low opinion of state. And to answer your question it’s unethical because it is a leading contributory factor in social inequality and a lack of social mobility.

My kids are in state, and its ok in comparison, but the whole system is frankly shit. Private we cannot afford (and i'm pretty aware that private can be shit too). But thinking of home education as an option.

That makes more sense, but although it is unfair (I strongly agree) very few parents would take pride in joining a race to the bottom just so their DC didn't have an unfair advantage in life. Who chooses to live in a cramped house in an underprivileged area and give their children no beneficial experiences? So, given we all want what we perceive will give our children the best start in life, we offer it. And I see private schooling as an expensive version of this, no less 'just' than any other advantage.

I wonder what about parents who pay for their kids' university education or buy them a house... massively unfair on those who have to take loans

‘I wonder what about parents who pay for their kids' university education or buy them a house... massively unfair on those who have to take loans’

A massive privilege obvs, but are those parents coming in here to bleat about being ‘demonised’?

A massive privilege obvs, but are those parents coming in here to bleat about being ‘demonised’?

But there aren't loads of threads saying "Let's ban universities"

True but plenty of people think it should be free at the point of access. Which would make them accessible to all unlike private education. Even with the current set supposedly anyone can go to university..

@Yazo where do you get your information from? Our parents aren't paying our children's school fees, neither have we had an inheritance from anyone.

Seriously, do you have statistics for how people fund fees?

Why would anyone want to ban universities?

No idea 🤷‍♀️ I was just responding to the post?

Cos they are fuckwits who don't like doctors. Clearly.

So the difference is that whereas it used to be that a tiny number of massively privileged people (mostly male) with wealthy parents were able to go to university, the expansion of higher education in the 20th & 21st Centuries has made it accessible to anyone who wants (in practice though approximately 50% of each cohort of 18 year olds getting some kind of university-level education, although not all of those will be doing a full Bachelor level degree) by enabling anyone who doesn't have massive family wealth to have the same experience and then pay for it with an extra 9% on their income tax for pretty much their entire working life.

This of course doesn't stop the wealthy from being able to access that University education without having to sign up for the lifetime of debt repayments, or enjoying a more afluent lifestyle during their student years (the maximum student loan is extremely difficult to stretch over covering basic living costs. However, the education recieved is the same at any given institution whether you are paying from Old Money or paying via a loan. There are certainly very variable levels of quality of institution, but money doesn't get you a place at the best if your qualifications don't demonstrate your merit.

The same model wasn't applied to age 11-18 education though. Rather than seeing an excellent model of education enjoyed by the wealthy, and finding a way for everyone who could benefit to have the same level of access, a low-budget cut-price version is offered at underfunded and overcrowded state schools.

If the University model was applied to schools, it would be possible for any child to get a place at an independent highly academic selective school regardless of ability to pay, with the option to repay the fees from the future earnings they would surely be able to achieve from such an advanced education, if their family wealth was insufficent to cover them.

If the Schools model was applied to universities, Oxbridge would have remained the playground of the priviledged offspring of the wealthy, but the rest of the population would be able to gain their degrees at the University of Westhampton (est 1998) for free.

Neither model seems fair put that way.

YANBU OP. I wish we could afford private education for our children. I don’t blame you for wanting to give them the best education you can. I would do the same in your position. We just don’t have the money to send both DC.

True but plenty of people think it should be free at the point of access. Which would make them accessible to all unlike private education. Even with the current set supposedly anyone can go to university.

I get the sentiment why it should be "free" but that it would make it much less accessible to the "poors" from bad state schools. Like it was in the past, like it still is in the countries where its is state financed (but only a limited number of places). However, universities accepting anyone who can pay, have really brought the value of degrees down. Its is like - you can't have your cake and eat it too.