Not to pay for my dad's losses?

[DaughterLaFontaine]

NC, as this is potentially outing:

My father and I have not been close since my parents got divorced (I was around 12). I do know he loves me on some level - but he's a grand master in being hurtful and dismissive above all.

Some years, he will remember my birthday or call on Christmas. Most, he won't.

So imagine my surprise when he rings out of the blue. I assumed some relative must have died or something!

As it turns out, no! Dad has always been into new-age woowoo stuff and conspiracy theories - turns out the latest and greatest one, something or other all banking is about to collapse, was, in fact a crypto scam.

My dad is in his 60s and about to retire. He will now do so without any savings. And because I'm a high-earner he was hoping his losses of around 50k might be affordable for me to cover ...

What I HAVE offered: you retain my personal solicitor and we try to see if there's any chance of success if you sue. I pay any legal fees upfront but want my money back if you do win.

What I have said I wouldn't do: give 50k to my father so he has some savings. Let the scammers keep his original money.

I feel like a horrible human being for saying no to a father who wouldn't even pay child support for me! But: this is not his first major loss. If I do, he'll just think he has a full guarantee from the "Bank of Daughter" and may lose it all again.

AIBU not to give him the money?

Actually, police first then solicitor.

Dn't give him money, it will just go the same way on the next big thing. Your offer is sensible.

Suppose it depends how much the 50k is worth to you.

If it's a substantial amount of money that you need for your own life then no, I wouldn't.

There are high earners though and then there are high earners. To some people I know 50k is a trivial amount of money.

If it were a drop in the ocean I might consider it, probably with some strings attached saying it was never going to happen again. Maybe it would be better to help him out on a case by case basis rather than transferring a lump sum which could end up being squandered again.

Your father seems a bit weird if he was too tight to pay for you, only amassed 50k in savings during his lifetime and then got scammed out of it. Tight people are usually a lot more careful with their money.

You say he's retiring soon, so presumably will get some sort of pension, so it's not like he's completely skint. I'm wondering whether these losses constitute the full extent of his wealth - for example he could always equity release his property if he wants some ready cash.

I wouldn't want to see a parent in the poor house, but it doesn't sound like he is exactly deserving either.

My ex-FIL was a sucker for investment schemes and get rich quick schemes, lost a fortune time and time again because each time this one would be different. If you give him money I am sure it will just be reinvested in something else and you will end up bailing him out again. Maybe if you want to do something to make his life easier buy him something directly, but I wouldn’t give someone like this cash. It is just gambling (but acceptable for the middle classes)

if given you history you don’t want to do anything for him that’s fine too

By the way, I am older than your father and I will not be retiring for another few years yet. If he is 60 then the UK government assumes he is capable of working like everyone else and he will not get a state pension for many years yet, and if he has lost his savings then he can't afford to retire early at only 60. Assuming your father is even being honest about this and not just making up a sob story to get hold of your money, he needs to earn money now while he is in reasonable health so he can retire later with a decent standard of living. Do not bail him out financially now while he can still earn himself. In 15 years time he may have genuine needs.

I’d suggest to him he continues working or gets a part-time job to build up new savings.

Just to clarify a few points: no, he doesn't have dementia or anything of the sort. He's just an A grade idiot who has a tendency to fall for any old conspiracy theory and now, apparently, also scams. Last time I physically saw him, he happened to be in the area, having paid some dodgy "medium" insane fees for some "initiation".

And, no, I am not planning to finance any "no hope" lawsuit. I was thinking "pay for an hour with a solicitor, elicit whether there is any hope of any such thing on a no win, no fee type of model".

No don't do it.

If you bail him out this time you will be on the path of continually bailing him out for all sorts of stuff - get-rich-quick schemes, utility bills, cars, holidays, and care homes.

My parents started asking me for money when I was at university. I was gobsmacked and said I didn't have a couple of grand to give them. They took all the money from Grandma's inheritance including my share. I didn't want to rock the boat being young and naive but I made it very clear that they were never to ask me for money ever again. They frittered everything on booze and tat.

I have done well financially and I have kept to my word. I never offer them money. They make the odd hint which I ignore and say my money is for my kids. Karma and all that stuff.

YANBU.

I was in a similar situation with my father a few years ago - not as bad, but he'd retired early and made some decisions about pursuing training/education for a new career. He was hit with a bill for tuition fees - it was predictable, but he'd chosen to ignore it, and then rang around all his DC (there are a few of us) to split the £15,000 cost between us.

We did it, from filial duty, and at least it paid for his postgrad degree, although he never took up the new career.

But in your situation, I would say No.

I feel like a horrible human being for saying no to a father who wouldn't even pay child support for me!

But he's not a father is he? He's as close to you as a random man your mother had an affair with for a couple of years. There's no bonding, no real love, no concern or support in any way, just nothing.

You owe this man absolutely zilch so don't be guilted by him otherwise he will mess with your head, your heart and your savings.

A fool and his money ...

I would direct him to a lawyer for a half hour free and that's it.

We could all spend like no tomorrow if we could rely on someone else covering our losses!

Sounds like it'll better he doesnt have a huge chunk of savings handy. So definitely not. Some people never learn.

I hope the reson your solicitor is absolutely brilliant is that she will only take a moment to point out that neither of you should spend another moment wasting your time or even solving problem that isn't yours.
Be strong, write to your dad an make it clear that you have taken advice and will not be funding and legal help.
You owe him nothing, honestly.

@TheLurpackYears, sort of, yes, they would be.

I always describe them as "quite possibly a psychopath, as in: very analytical, ice cold, noone's feelings considered - but luckily for me, I won't need to pay for legal services ever again if I'm dead, they won't murder me, they definitely underwent that same thought process before me!". They're also calculating enough to know you make more money in the long run by advising against proceeding with minor or hopeless matters.

Basically, if it's a non-starter from their POV, it'd be one from mine.

No win no fee cases involve an insurance policy being taken out to cover fees and I don't think an underwriters going to go for anyone trying to sue a scammer. You might as well just give the solicitor £400.

I wouldn't give him money, I wouldn't pay his fees and I wouldn't give him a second thought either.

If you give people like this an inch, they will take a mile, or waste a lot of your time trying to.

So ... update! It's worse!

I somehow did get my dad to at least call these people and ask to withdraw the very little money remaining.

As was to be expected, that's "not possible" - I was expecting them to cite some T&C, but they are bolder than that: simply told him "we would, unfortunately, you now have 0.00 left, oh, also: we're afraid you will have to pay an administrative fee from the broker; we will bill you for it".

In that sense: my dad might be a CF, but oh man are professional scammers ever even worse!

On the upside: for me, it was an easy out. Told him I could not give him a penny as all it would do would be to expose me to these criminals and put me on their radar. Somehow, even my crazy father understands this!

I also told him: dad, 1st thing in the morning you march straight into the next police station and file a report. Because this is no longer your money problem, this is organised crime! Also: you will want to have that case number handy because: whatever bill they send you: you are NOT paying this (not that he could), and depending on how they plan on getting their money, the evidence of a crime may come in handy then.

He did NOT, also as per my advice, speak to CAB, mind. I told him he had to. Again.

^This.

Did you witness him speaking to anyone or is he just making up excuses? He sounds like a gambler to me.

So he can’t be bothered to call you on your birthday or Christmas but certainly remembers your number and gets in contact when he wants money! He didn’t bother with child support and left that to your mum. Don’t give him a penny. The cheek of him calling asking for a significant amount of money just shows how self serving he is. Let him deal with his own mess as it doesn’t sound like he would help you if you were in need.

Once he has been scammed it is likely he will be targeted for future ones, just as his call has indicated. They rely on embarrassment of the victim, meaning it goes unreported. How did he transfer the money, for example were there safeguards at the bank flagging the transactions which he overrode?

Solicitors are a waste of time and money when it comes to scammers.
Although a generous offer, don’t feel you have to please him after many years of him being absent from your life.
He just turns up asking for money, therefore, to him, money is more important than you are.
He didn’t care about you or your mum when he didn’t pay child support.

It is a classic abuser tactic to blame others for any shortcomings, thus he’s blamed his ex partner for not paying the child support.
What he should have done, as any decent parent would do, is put the money aside for you every month before he spends on himself and the partner.ie, make you a priority.
He refuses to take responsibility for himself.

Its up to you, OP but dad or not, I wouldn’t pay him a penny.

I would not give him a penny nor would I pay legal fees at all. I mean who exactly do you think can be sued and even if you did win (highly unlikely) do you think they will actually pay. Most likely the scammers are based out of the UK and are hidden well by many sham businesses etc. Honestly, your lawyer will be wasting their time and your money trying to find a person to sue. You cannot sure the bank as your father gave the money willingly.

Whatever you do make sure you father has actually been scammed and is not just trying to boost his savings for retirement from the bank of his high earning child.

You have handled this very well. Stay strong.