Closing all private schools would benefit state schools

[Nimbostratus100]

I've been thinking about that the argument of state schools not being able to accommodate another 7 % of pupils. It really doesn't add up

For one thing, state schools are frequently in a situation of having to accommodate 7% more pupils and they just stretch and cope. It wouldn't be any different.

And each pupil brings in more government funding.

And if all the private schools closed, we would have a fresh pool of 14% more teachers! More funding for teachers in state schools, and a massive increase in numbers of teacher applying!

Given that many vacancies are currently attracting zero applicants, this could be a total game changer!

Of course some teachers in private schools would not apply to state schools, an would just leave teaching instead, and some would not be qualified to teach in state schools.

But then, we wouldn't be taking in 7% more pupils, either, given how many private school pupils are overseas, or have parents overseas, and would just move to board in another country.

So say 5% more pupils, and maybe 12% more teachers! fantastic! even more so when you consider the resources potentially freed up - many of our best resources were donated 10 or 20 years ago by private schools, they might have untold wealth in the form of sports equipment, science equipment, technology, test books, musical instruments! working photocopiers!!! school furniture!

And potentially, even school premises

The government hasn't got any money they wouldn't be able to pay for all these extra kids and there's no room anyway. It would be even worse for state schools they couldn't fit them all in.

It should be the goal to have the perfect education system. I don’t think private schools would need to be closed. If the state schools improved and were as good as private, eventually all the mid range schools would close. But the government would have to significantly improve the state schools.

Exactly this. Worded way better than I ever could!

it is non-negotiable - they would pay

what protracted legal battles and damage to Uk educational infrastructure? private schools are closing all the time without any of this. And if VAT is added to private school fees, then a lot more will close, so MN parents predict and bewail!

I am just pointing out that it wont be the disaster to state schools that MNers always seem to think it will be

So you’re saying that it would be impossible for the government, which makes/ amends the laws of the land, to change how the state school model is funded or how much each pupil receives? It may well be but I find it hard to believe.

You made this up. Complete fantasy. No, the government doesn’t pay for private school pupils. I wish!

I am not saying the government pays for private pupils. I am saying the government pays of state pupils. Less than what parents pay for private pupils, ( not always actually)

@Nimbostratus100

I might have missed where you said this but where is the extra money for the government to fund all these state school places coming from?

There is no extra money coming in so I see two possibilities

1. increase in tax

2. decrease in the amount given per pupil

Or do you have another suggestion?

All parents pay tax to cover their children's education by the state
Well that's not really true, is it, if you mean it literally. The tax paid by most parents won't come near paying for their dc's education. And it's also paid by people without children.

the government pays schools per pupil, that is how schools are funded, so more pupils is more pay

Why would the government put more money in for my child than it does already for your child?

It's a stupid idea and it's the same.knee jerk politics that was behind Brexit. Resentful people being told that they'll benefit if a certain sector of society is removed from the equation.

who says I am resentful? I am simply responding to all those MNers who keep on saying it will be such a disaster for state schools if adding VAT to private school fees leads to private school closures - no it will not be a disaster in any way!

So where does the money come from to fund this? The magic money tree? I note the figures from MintJulia.

My dd moved from state secondary to private provision because her ofsted outstanding school was completely stifling her. She wasn’t learning. Lockdown saved her education actually. We tried it your way. It didn’t work. Are you saying that we should have just accepted dd would be extremely unhappy and unable to learn because she couldn’t cope with the learning environment?

Children don’t just go to private school because parents can afford it. They also go because children cannot cope and parents use up savings or borrow money to send their kids there. One of dd’s friends left for the same reason and parents are also in that exact situation. As are we.

Also to be clear about the stats. It’s 7% of British children. Not foreign. Within this 8% secondary, which goes up to 16% for A levels.

Where do they all go? Every single state school around my way is bursting at the seams for my dd’s year (year 10) regardless of their ofsted rating. And what should the state do with those half way through GCSE and A level courses. Pull them out and force them to go back to the start or fund the private schools until the students have left?

Where will the money come from?

If the private schools closed I would be quite peeved.

I value living in a country where the state does not dictate the decisions I make regarding how I educate my children and spend my money.

What next on this slippery slope, I wonder?

“The government” doesn’t have any money to pay for anything. “The government” raises revenue from taxes or borrowing.

You sound very naive to how the country is run.

Thank god this thread is complete bollocks.

@Nimbostratus100

I asked you where the money was coming from this was your answer.

the government pays schools per pupil, that is how schools are funded, so more pupils is more pay

I worry that someone who claims to be a teacher thinks that this answers my question.

don't think anyone can claim to be "left wing" and send their dc to private schools (barring some reasons connected to disabilities perhaps)
Why not?
Why should a parent deliberately put their child in an education setting that isn't right for them just to so that strangers don't doubt their left wing credentials?

I can't afford private for mine, I'm a teacher, and centre left politically, but there are some local schools that I would move heaven and earth to make private school or homeschool happen before I send my children there.

You Asked why there would be protracted legal battles.

because the private schools own the materials and buildings you seem to think the government can just appropriate for free. it cannot. And the government will not want to stump up the money to compensate the various charities.

You may have been voluntarily given offcasts before - but I assure you the school calculated first where the benefit to the school was. Giving away outdated equipment to the needy would have been used as evidence of charity. Or done because they needed good local relationships. Or because it would cost more to dispose of the stuff in another way.

a school forced to close does not need to have good local relations etc. instead the trustees have legal duties to collect in money for those assets (and they will)

It's an interesting thought. How it would play out would be very different from area to area.

Where I live in the midlands there is only one private school and one secondary school in each surrounding town. None of the state schools are outstanding. Some are in and out of Special Measures like they are caught on the door handle. The private school doesn't have to work hard to be better than the local state provision.

If the private school were to close down the state schools would have to find space for an extra 50 students each across all secondary years.

The main facility which would be released is land. In a not very nice town!

TBH it would probably make very little difference.

If you are a teacher, OP you are embarrassing us as a profession.

Moving to private kept me in education. I know many of my colleagues feel the same. I would not return to the state sector.

Of course YANBU OP.

It's amazing to read in some of these responses that private school parents think they're doing the rest of us a favour by upholding a two tier education system

I think you've struck a nerve. Removal of charitable status can't come too soon.

This, plus the cost of building new schools or adding temporary classrooms in the playground of existing ones.

Where I live there are hardly any in year places available. They have been trying to build 2 new secondary schools for years. 1 is now open. The other is experiencing endless planning wars.

There are several private schools that in theory (fantasy?) could be purchased. The fancy one has grounds and a swimming pool etc. That will be expensive to buy and expensive to maintain. The others are in converted houses. The classrooms are on the small size for their classes of 20ish. No way would you fit in 30, so not really viable for a state school.