Mothers are competitive and jealous

[cornfleurs]

I saw this study mentioned in the news and it really resonated with some of my own experiences since becoming a mother - as well as situations I've witnessed on the school run, problems my friends have encountered with other women and even threads on Mumsnet!

The researchers found that mothers responded more negatively to other women who had desirable assets (be that material or social) that they themselves didn't possess. In other words, women are programmed to be jealous of other women.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-023-31816-0

AIBU to think this sounds pretty accurate?

You are missing the point aren’t you? The competition you are talking about in terms of educational attainment is very different to the jealousy and negativity being spoken about in the article.

You can somersault as much as you like, Western mums are comparatively more individualistic and negatively competitive.

China is a communist country and is built on a very different mindset - all for one and one for all type approach and excelling for collective dominance.

Everywhere had competition and ethos and mindset are not the same across cultures.

It's also important to remember that "she's jealous" is a default response for many of us. It's something that's said to little girls to explain bad behaviour/bullying from other girls.

This is such an interesting thread.

I'm not sure if it's competitiveness alwats or more women trying to be self righteous or big themselves up when they're actually insecure about their choices.

I have an ex friend who approaches life with her way is the best way - breastfeeding, vegan, home schooling, etc. She's quite judgemental to others.

I don't have anything to compete with. If I did it would probably be the bad stuff like my birth experiences being the worst out of my friends or having the most disorganised house out of everyone I know as dc1 has adhd and so do I!

I think that it’s because it’s particularly the mothers who are thrown in to a whole new peer group of strangers the minute that the school gates open.
The school runs etc are still dominated by mothers and it’s a long haul with a group of people that you wouldn’t necessarily want to know.
Men are to an extent at arm’s length from this and retain their original peer group.

I’m always taken aback at how often it’s the default response on Mn from actual adults, to any situation described by an OP that involves any kind of behaviour that suggests anything from lack of warmth to actual hostility, when there’s no evidence whatsoever jealousy is involved.

I find it deeply juvenile. It’s a very face-saving way of not considering whether you’ve done anything to contribute to a difficult dynamic, or of not dealing with the reality that not everyone will like you. It’s also very self-aggrandising, because it posits the person as having something other people are perceived to want.

I seem to have missed out on having that said to me in childhood, probably because we were so visibly poor that there was no basis conceivable for anyone to be ‘jealous’.

That doesn’t sound like they’ve measured competitiveness at all, but rather perceptions of competitiveness.

Exactly.

And given that jealousy is such a stereotypical female trait, it's hardly surprising that people would perceive women to be more jealous and competitive than men. It doesn't mean it's true however.

Surveys based on self reporting always need to be taken with a pinch of salt, especially when it comes to 'gendered' behaviour. It's like how, when asked how many sex partners you have had, it's well known that men will overstate and women understate, because promiscuity is still much more acceptable, even admirable, in men than in women.

I used to laugh at those “competitive” mums. Some were quite ridiculous. I never got involved with their one upmanship as Dd and Ds would always “fail” as they were both on the SEN table. (Dd loved being on that table as you got a chocolate button each day for writing your name😂 her reasoning was why try too hard as you would just miss out on the chocolate buttons)

It’s when you watch them trying to outdo each other on what their child can do or which schools, tutors, universities they were looking at.

It starts at birth, my child can sit up, walk, talk. Given virtually every child can do these sort of things by the the time they are 5 years old then I didn’t think it mattered
The knots they tied themselves into when Ds walked at 9 months.

Was once told that I should stop dc’s ECAs and concentrate on school work as otherwise they would end up with no qualifications and fail to get into university and I was condemning them to a lifetime of minimum wage jobs

Dd has gone through the grades in her ECA’s and has so many at a top level she has enough UCAS points for university even though she only got 4 GCSEs

I found that these mums lacked any sort of awareness that there was more than one path their children could take. None seemed to have any awareness of what their children actually liked or wanted.

I always felt sorry for the children as what they wanted or liked never came into their parents vision.

Only up to a point. The modern evolutionary science around inclusive fitness, parental investment theory and especially the so-called 'Cinderella effect' all point to a preponderance of altruism and generosity to ones one kinship / close familial / tribal ethnic group.

Motherhood is the biggest success story of the human race. The overwhelming majority of everyday normal mothers would not only take a bullet for their own kids, possibly grandkids too but also step in front of other children to protect them from perceived dangers. So I'm not particularly interested in a continuing and escalating attempt both in academia and elsewhere to denigrate mothers. We rock !

Um.

Nope. Bullshit. I'm not like that naturally, nor are most of the mums I know.

We see this everyday here on mumsnet.
someone’s got a cleaner: lazy and disorganised
married to a wealthy man: they’re abused and unhappy
children wear Boden: tacky new money because old money wear rags
well dressed moms at school gates: miserable cows because surely they have an awful self esteem

We should clarify between 'women' and 'mothers' as they are not the same thing.

Can you share around what you are on?

*Maybe it changes once children get to school, but in my personal experience, mums are incredibly supportive towards one another rather than competitive.

I started to notice some jealousy most when my children were pre-teens and an increasing disparity emerged between the lifestyles/circumstances among the people we knew/ families my dc had grown up with.

A lot of people's careers really take off in their late 30s/early 40s, and they are gradually able to afford much bigger houses, private school etc, while others stay put. Mothers are often at the coal face of this due to the way they socialise/school runs/playdates etc, so they may see what others have relative to themselves more clearly. Social media is also a factor now.

But I picked up on resentment towards some women in particular, and sometimes noticed quiet attempts to bring the more fortunate-seeming mothers down a peg or two, sometimes by excluding them or their dc, saying nasty things behind their backs etc.

It was striking to me, which is why this study struck a chord I suppose

sorry, quote fail in the first sentence of my post