Mothers are competitive and jealous

[cornfleurs]

I saw this study mentioned in the news and it really resonated with some of my own experiences since becoming a mother - as well as situations I've witnessed on the school run, problems my friends have encountered with other women and even threads on Mumsnet!

The researchers found that mothers responded more negatively to other women who had desirable assets (be that material or social) that they themselves didn't possess. In other words, women are programmed to be jealous of other women.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-023-31816-0

AIBU to think this sounds pretty accurate?

Likewise the study isn’t saying fathers are not competitive vis-a-vis fathers. So you could go off and find a video of competitive fatherhood and it matters not.

I think it's natural to feel envious of others, it's how much you allow those feelings to consume you and what you do as a result. For example, I'm not ashamed to say i was envious of a friend who lived in a massive house, went on several foreign holidays a year, didn't have to work yet still had a cleaner because she had a high earning husband, who she was incredibly Hapoy with. I'll confess I had to work hard on appreciating what I did have, which was more than many people could ever hope for, and not wishing I could have her life.

I read somewhere that men are more competitive! They find it harder to be friends with other guys as they compare homes ,style of living, cars and so on. My friend said she had read that when women have DC they become calmer and more settled.

I have 3 kids, two happy healthy kids who did fine at school, one who was academically very ahead of all the other kids but useless at physical stuff, it was like all their development had been channeled in one direction. We had issues with school mums who would do things like invite my child round for playdate and proceed to get them to do an 11plus paper to compare with their own child. You could "hear" these women in things their kids said and by the end of primary school my child was being really badly bullied.

The nicest, kindest mums I met at that time were mums at a group for children with learning difficulties learning a sport, as my child was so awkward and lacking in coordination it was suggested we go along. The mums were so inclusive and they would compare notes about schools and specialists and so on. When a new child joined their would be lots of talk about diagnosis/treatment etc and eventually the new mum would look at my child and say, "What is Xs diagnosis." The other mums would chorus, "That's what we want to know." and laugh. I never once felt any resentment when my child was sitting reading a book or doing a maths puzzle or something like that which we would get so much of with the mums at school. I honestly think it was the most positive experience I had as a mum.

The study is small, not representative and the differences are small. Promoted to the sheeple that blindly consume and believe anything on the news.
Mothers can be envious of women who parent better than them, the study finds. A bear can shit in the woods, Sherlock.
Girls from birth and even while still in utero are conditioned with the expectations to parent and to parent well. Almost universally. Boys very often are conditioned to be free agents, even despite the nature of many, nurturing traits are erased out of them, starting in the family, subtly or even directly and none of the above expectation is placed on boys. No shit some feel less jealous about things they don't care about.

I guess if it wasn't true. Mn wouldn't be so interesting...

There is no end to what MNers can blame men for...

Oh no, women aren't inherently competitive. How we dress, "judge" each other's appearance, "judge" the behaviour of each other's children, sharpen elbows to make sure our kids get into best schools, appraise each other's shoes / make up / handbags / house-proudness , our kids' GCSE results, whether kids got in to an RG Uni, compare how our babies were born or got fed. Snobbery about (not) cooking from scratch, UPVC windows and too much screen time. Not possibly hardwired: all those things that men profoundly do not even talk about because they simply don't care that much .... couldn't possibly be hardwired that women (or at least MNers) care so much about these things & incessantly compare and compete on them.

One of my faves on MN is bra cup size. Plenty delighted proclamations on here about G, H & J size chests reported as "revelation" after a bra intervention. Nobody says "What a pisser now I found out this is my real bra size and that's it, I'm saving up to get a reduction ASAP these norks are so annoying I hate the attention they'll get me".

Did you even read this very flawed study? Or just saw or heard the headline and are using this to spread misogynistic views?
Just so you know, you'll find confirmation of whatever you set out to find. Most studies will. There is "scientific" proof of very opposite claims.

I have found the opposite to be true. Mums generally at the school gate are more popular the more they have. It seems if your rich, nice car, lots of money, amazing house, desirable career ( husband is minted) then you will be the most popular. People do like to socaily climb and aligning yourself with someone beautiful and rich seems to be the norm.

I have had people be lovely to me when they think they can get something that I have that they want. The moment it becomes obvious they can't get that thing or another better socially standing mum comes along, they ignore me. 4 kids, so being school runs for 15 years. One was who I considered a best friend. Her kids moved to a private school, and she told me repeatedly how another mums house was big. The kids could scoot around the rooms. Then, after two years she started ignoring me, saying she was always too busy to meet up. Then I bumped into her having lunch with minted mum.

By biology, I think. It makes sense from an evolutionary psychology perspective.

In what way does jealousy 'make sense'?

Competitiveness between women was not 'shown'.

It was reported. Not the same thing.

It's sad that this has been your experience but I have found similar.
I refuse to befriend anyone on anything more that a superficial level as I am concerned that relationships are agenda driven. Not for me at least for now.

I think it is possible to get to a place where you don't play these competitive/ envy games at the School gates. You have to be very self aware, mature and self assured. These things take internal work. It is possible, but you do see a lot of screaming skulls on here acting out from a place of envy....so I do believe the general finding of the study is true.

(Now.... I need to go and work out how to finance a Range Rover and a three week family holiday Disney Land Florida. I'll show Izzys mum I'm no poorper)

It absolutely does not. Cooperation and altruism make much more sense in respect to raising children

Not been my experience at all, but then I tend to read the best into interactions. Tbf, I don't really have any 'mum friends', I have friends who are mums, but I never made friends through any network of mums so there's doubtless sides I haven't seen at all.

It depends how much they flaunt it. I have a very wealthy friend who is very down to earth. I'm happy for her and not jealous.
There are other smarmy mums on the school run who flaunt their privilege like a badge. They make me slightly jealous.

Having glanced the paper over, I note that they do very little to define 'competitive' - they seem to be focused mostly on jealousy, arguably quite a different thing than trying to beat others at stuff - and rely heavily on hypotheticals in the questions they ask. The guiding assumptions of the study are very cliched.

In my experience sharp glances and put downs at the school gates are a very real thing. But not equally everywhere - the worst I've seen was in Cambridge, a very stratified place.

It's a social dynamic, and a function of the way women are taught to think that they are always failing at something, if it's not reproduction then it's career. Trying to make this into a psychological constant is letting the patriarchy off the hook.

Before I had children I thought competitive mums would be an issue because you often hear about how common it is.

Nothing could be further from my experience so far. The vast majority of mums (and dads) I have met have been supportive and lovely. I’m genuinely amazed by the amount of times I have heard strangers offering reassurance to a worried mum about some milestone or another, or reminding each other that all toddlers throw tantrum/snatch toys/knock over things so ‘don’t worry, it’s fine!’.

Maybe it changes once children get to school, but in my personal experience, mums are incredibly supportive towards one an other rather than competitive.

I have avoided some people who might appear more well off than me and have a better lifestyle, as I did not want my kids to get involved with that level of competitiveness. It's harder now they are older, but when they were small I did. I was happy with my shit buggy and flat, but just didn't want to get into all that. I worked full time and many of the wealthy mums were SAH and it felt like they occupied a different world to me at the time. They were nice enough, but we had differing priorities. I wasn't jealous as such, just didn't manage to click with them as I wasn't around much.

The wealthy parents I avoided turned out to be in massive debt! I hope the top of the range baby stuff was worth it.

Echoing this, it's my experience too

Citation needed. China has had to ban tutoring for profit, Korean kids spend hours after school every day going to tutoring/study classes and it’s pretty much the same in Japan. Western Europe is far more covert about competitiveness and there are at least strands in society who do try for inclusion.

And for all of those mums who are lovely to your face, I can guarentee some of them will be gleefully feeling smug to their husbands and some friends behind your back.

@malificent7 That's not competition, surely? That's difference in opinion and choice.

It's women in general, not just mums.

“We asked 596 married participants, 25–45 years of age with at least one child from three different countries to evaluate how same-sex individuals they know would react to a target individual who had a valuable resource that the same-sex individuals did not have. Half the participants evaluated reactions to same-sex targets, while the other half evaluated reactions to other-sex targets. Participants reported that women would react more negatively than men to resource asymmetry with same-sex targets, but not other-sex targets.”

That doesn’t sound like they’ve measured competitiveness at all, but rather perceptions of competitiveness. Participants have stated that they think women would be more jealous of other women with valued resources, but that doesn’t mean they actually are?