Why so anti drag?

[nicetoseetgesunsout]

I've just watched the Paul oGrady tribute programme and it brought me to tears.
He did so much for children and their families and for so so many animals, plus against social injustice for gay people and anti section 28, not being scared to raise its injustice on mainstream tv.
My 75yr old mum is very upset about his passing.
Why the hate for drag performers?
My children grew up with Boy George,Marilyn and Leigh Bowrie RIP as they are friends. My children (boy and girl, now a woman and a man) always knew that they were, and are, men and saw them without costume wigs and makeup.
I'm also friends with a married couple who were drag queens a long time ago. My children have always known that these guys are men, dressing up as women, as they liked to and it was entertainment.
No offence meant to women. They saw them dressed as their drag persona but also without costume and mostly as men.
One couple of ex drag queens I know are now a Director for a hospice and his husband is a social work manager. Reputable jobs, no desire to be women and have two cats who are their babies. Lovely men.
Pantos have always had men playing women but we all know that they're men. Shakespeare plays had men playing women - that's more offensive to me.
Female authors like SE Sinton wrote and published amazing books without her obviously female first names - as she couldn't get published otherwise. These upset me much more

@Hoppinggreen am I? I hope so, that people are accepting generally but if they just really hate one or another then fine. I'd argue being accepting of either the way to go here.

You hear it a lot on Rupaul's drag race (I used to love it), meant as a compliment. Pretty gross. Not sure if the term is used outside of that programme though.

Yes they do.

It's horrifically misogynistic

I agree. POG, Dick Emery and Stanley Baxter were very much of the latter category as was Barry Humphries.

@TeenDivided

I've been thinking about this since POG passed away.

I've always liked him and I liked Lily Savage. She was hilarious

However I do not like drag. It is sexist and mysoginy

So I cant square that circle.

I'm not sure the motivation matters really.

We wouldn't and don't accept black face /cultural appropriation.

It's a hard one

I don’t think drag queens are emulating everyday womanhood, are they. They’re a sort of creative, hyper-character expression of that person’s alter ego. I think it’s reductive to get upset that it’s somehow misogynistic. I believe people can express themselves how they like.

I’m GC I don’t get offended because to me I can’t see it as woman face. I see it as gay men acting out the worst stereotypes of gay men. Literally don’t connect any of it with women.

I don't mind drag and it's a specific performance art that is rooted in gay culture. I'm not sure I'd describe it as misogynistic as all the male gay artists that I know adore women. Having said that, I do not understand how we now have drag queen story hour - it's just not appropriate given the often adult themes/names in drag.

No, I don't hate Trans. I struggle to understand why they are so badly dressed sometimes, why so very OTT, as it screams "look, I'm a man in a dress" rather than trying to pass as a real woman.

Needless to say I don't agree with Transwomen competing in female sports or having access to areas that should be sex segregated, not gender.

So blackface would be ok? Expressing yourself?

It’s members of an oppressor class dressing up as members of an oppressed class to caricature tropes about them for humour.

i don’t agree that P O’G was blameless here. Yes, he seemed to have been a lovely man and did a lot of good but I think Lily Savage was based on misogynistic stereotypes, as all drag is.

Paul O'G's act and sense of humour was brilliant, just spot-on. I used to find drag funny, although it does have a tendency to fall into the same old jokes. I watched Rupaul's Drag Race after lots of hype and I don't know if it was just this episode, but nearly all the jokes were about anuses and poo.

I don't find that offensive, just... I have 7yo twin boys so it's rather a tedious spiel.

The stuff being displayed to children is sometimes incredibly age-inappropriate too. Rubber/explicit costumes etc. You can't lump all drag acts in together.

All of this has left me feeling a bit "over" drag as a genre of entertainment.

I seem to remember Lily referring g to her “husband” who sounded like a useless cocklodger in finest MN tradition.

I don't have any particular issue with drag - I loved Lily Savage back in the day. However drag is, and always will be, entertainment for adults only.

The issue I do have with drag is when it is having anything to do with children because that turns it from fun, campy entertainment for adults to something very, very sinister. I would deeply suspect the motivation of any adult who thinks this is acceptable.

Unfortunately this small subset of questionable individuals is giving drag a bad name.

I am in no way transphobic but I don’t like the majority of drag and I have never heard anyone on here disliking it for that reason.
The only reason I have heard on MN for disliking it is that it takes the piss out of women by parodying being one. Most Drag acts take the worst stereotypes of being women and try and turn it into comedy. I don’t feel that being a woman is inherently funny.
I also think that the over sexualised Drag acts should be for over 18s only. My dc are open minded and fair to everyone despite their sexual orientation and they managed it without ever having a man in a dress read fairy stories to them

There are different types of drag, from the pantomime dame through to some fairly unpleasant acts.

Some are suitable for children, some are not.

I'm not sure there is hatred of drag, but I don't think drag acts reading stories to children in libraries has helped public perception.

I think we're in different times now, Op. I have a family member who is a drag queen , has had quite a long successful career and I respect his career choice.
I've never had any desire to see his shows, as we don't have the same sense of humour I dont think Id find his material funny.
I think there's evidently a place for it, as well as panto dames but as I'm older now I'm more aware if there's any misogynistic under or overtones.
I hope the dq story hour trend dies a death very soon . Can't think of any grounds where it would be appropriate or required......

I'd mind my own business if the normalisation of overly sexual drag and plain mysogeny wasn't being pushed forward in a way that is detrimental to women

toxic masculinity? A lot of fairly unpleasant people (male or female) can accept gay people in theory, but simply cannot come to terms with a man straight or otherwise wearing women's clothes.

Some drag is very offensive, some not so much. Paul O'Grady said in an interview that he would never resurrect Lily Savage as it would be offensive nowadays. I generally dislike drag because I find it over sexualized, misogynistic and really not funny at all. Lily Savage was genuinely funny and I never felt that Paul was having a pop at women, as so many drag artists seem to be.

Because they make me shudder - even lovely POG, ever since drag became a way to show hate for women. The overly sexualised attire, the horrific names, the violence, the sexualisation of children and drag queen story hour. Similar to the way the pride flag/rainbow pisses me off now whereas it never did.

Boy George, Marilyn and all the New Romantic pop stars in the 80s wearing make-up or the soft rockers with long hair have nothing to do with drag and did not show the level of woman hate we have now.

Mumsnet is not a good place to ask about this because of the disproportionate number of consumers of anti trans and anti drag right wing propaganda.

That's a pretty wild allegation, any evidence to back it up? Calling out misogyny doesn't strike me as a particularly right wing pass time.

Inappropriate sexualisation can apply to drag as much as anything else in life sadly.

Plenty of guys who like to dress (respectfully and tastefully) in women's clothes just because they like them. And why not, eh? I don't see why guys shouldn't be able to wear flowery dresses if they want to - its a blatant unfair societal double standard tbh

xx

A few years ago I saw a wonderful drag out which was basically a tribute act to various female music groups. Not a misogynistic joke all evening. Thats not offensive.

The humour of some "drag queens" is offensive.

Rule of thumb for drag acts... would it be acceptable for women to act that way. If "DQST" was men dressing up as female story characters it would be more acceptable. But its very sexulised costumes... so comes across as creepy.