Did the UK peak in 2012? Will Britain ever be great again?

[verdantverdure]

In 2012 I had a baby, things seemed optimistic, and I was proud of my country. I'd never even heard of "food banks"

Now everything in this country seems shit, and on a downward trajectory to get worse.

And I haven't even watched Wild Isles episode 6 yet.

What do you think?

Can we pull it back in this country or are we in terminal decline?

YABU Whatchoo talking' about Willis?! Everything is FANTASTIC! Never better.

YANBU We've never had it so bad, and it's probably up to us to make it better.

You're right OP, 2012 was a fabulous year. The London olympics put GB in a great light and life certainly felt much better then than it did now. I despise this Tory government with every atom of my being.

Her "there's no such thing as society " was followed by "there are individuals and there are families. " It's always misquoted and taken out of context.

She was trying to say always put blame "on society " as a scapegoat. By it doesn't exist. Individuals do and so do families so everyone has to take some personal responsibility rather than just blaming everything on society.

newlearningonline.com/new-learning/chapter-4/neoliberalism-more-recent-times/margaret-thatcher-theres-no-such-thing-as-society

Link to that speech. She was talking about people taking some personal responsibility as individuals and families, she wasn't suggesting people say I'm alright jack to an alleged society.

This is typical Thatcher apologist nonsense. If she didn't mean "there is no such thing as society" why say it? She was far from stupid, after all. She knew full well what she was saying - everyone for themselves, fuck you buddy, and it was (and still is) a popular view.

Yes I think Britain will be great again, just don't know how long it will be.

Not sure 2012 was the peak though.

With the worst riots in decades the year before in London.

I don't think there was. Everything has been shit since the 2008 financial crash. Made much worse by 13 years of the awful Tories and Brexit. America have been in the same funk.

9/11 was the big turning point. The start of the Millenium was a peak. There was hope then, a seemingly progressive Labour government, a good mood in the country (relatively speaking as there's always social problems) and the Tories looked fucked.

The UK has been in decline for over a century, has enjoyed an artificially high standard of living since at least the 1950's propped up by enormous personal and government borrowing, and no longer carries much of the importance in the wider world it once did.

The 'Great' in GB is an anachronism. We're still a moderately relevant nation, but in a state of perpetual decline in both clout and significance. It's highly unlikely we'll ever regain the prominence we once enjoyed, because the world is an entirely different place and most of our authority was gained by exploitation and military bullying anyway, which is something we are not capable of repeating, and nor would we get away with it even if we had the means.

I can understand harking back 10 years to a time when things seemed better, but the truth is the rot set in way before the current government, as much as a shower of criminal incompetents they are, way before Covid, way before Brexit. The shit sandwich we're munching on right now has been on the cards since WWII, was gone on since in the UK was basically a long-term exercise in delaying the inevitable.

What will it be great for? By doing what?! I can't see it myself.

The 'Great' in Great Britain doesn't mean what you think it does. It is known as 'Great' because it is the largest island in the British Isles, and houses the countries of England, Scotland and Wales within its shores.

I don't think anyone thought it was named Great Britain because of it being a great place to live.

Do the majority of this population deserve anything better?

It may be circumstantial, but I was definitely happier and more positive 10 years ago. To me, things do feel bleak now.

My biggest concern is house prices and low wages, not for me, I was lucky to get on the housing market before things went mental. I worry very much for my children.

A couple of posts certainly implied that it was, had been or could be either Great in the sense of wonderful to live in or important in the world.

No, the U.K. did not peak in 2012. It peaked in the mid to late 19th century, during the Victorian era. This period was the zenith of the British Empire; an unchallenged global superpower never equalled before or since.

In my lifetime, Britain was at its strongest in the mid 2000s. The economy was strong. Our currency was strong. Our public services were properly funded & well run by the Labour government. Britain was one of the leading nations of the EU, with massive influence around the world.

The 2008 financial crisis marked the start of the country’s decline. The economy never really recovered, but the successful Olympics made the country feel good about itself for a while. David Cameron then made the disastrous decision to hold a referendum on Britain’s membership of the EU in an attempt to stop the Tory party tearing itself apart. He lost, we all lost, Brexit has been a catastrophe and now our country and our economy is weakened, divided & stagnant.

Don't worry op the 70s were far worse though we did know what a woman was.

For a lot of people in the UK the Olympics were nothing more that a London-centric vanity project. They may as well have been taking place on the moon for all the relevance they had to me as a Scot living in Scotland. Certainly did nothing to make me feel any sort of increased 'Britishness', in fact, given that they were funded by UK-wide taxes yet did nothing for my local economy whatsoever, I'd say it was the opposite. They were a classic example of the phenomenon that endlessly sees 'the UK' and 'the south of England' used interchangeably.

For sure I can imagine why people who lived in the immediate area might have relished the games and look back on them fondly, but I doubt you'll find anyone in Cornwall, Wales, Kent, or even the North of Scotland who nostalgically harks back to the 2014 Commonwealth Games as some sort of uniquely unifying event, because they were of little to no relevance to anyone outside of Glasgow. 40 miles from me, and even then they evoked nothing but a feeling of 'meh' indifference.

It was already on the down by 2012. Peak was probably about 2007 but we couldn’t help the world recession that then hit - in fact we were doing quite well at weathering and mitigating it until 2010, when we foolishly fell for Cameron’s “household budget” analogy.

“We” didn’t all fall for it! Spend your way out of a recession!

Give poor people money and they spend it on things they need, stimulating the economy. Give money to rich people and they siphon it off to the Caymans, bypassing the UK economy altogether.

The national economy is nothing like a household budget - yet another lie with which Thatcher convinced the public. The Bank of England is the government’s very own magic money tree, money “borrowed” from it has no repayment term and no interest payable.

Don't know about 2012, but I don't think I'll ever experience the euphoria and optimism of May 1997 again.

I think there was a lot of optimism in 2012 that the Olympics could act as a launchpad to reinvigorate the country but the reality of austerity, all the divisivness of the referendum build up followed by the fall out, Covid, war has made things deteriorate so rapidly.
For me I would look to the late 90's as when everything seemed brilliant & prosporous - 9/11 leading to Iraq war, followed by financial crisis probably the trigger for decline.

We have never got over losing the Empire. We still think we're a Superpower and act like it when we're sliding down the ladder of importance and influence more and more.
Rose-tinted nostalgia for the past and our ridiculous feudal class system keep us stuck in our delusions, unable to move on. We're entitled and expect to be treated differently just because. I think Brexit was a direct result of this hankering for the good old days.
The US must laugh at us and the so-called 'Special Relationship '.when we're more like that annoying relative you can't get who keep asking for favours.

Give me 1998/1999 - was living in Crouch End, new baby, relationship good, Tony Blair in power busily doing deep cleans of hospitals and schools

We left the UK in 2012 to work overseas, people seems happy enough at the time and no one was even talking about leaving the EU, in my circles anyway.

We came back in 2016 to what felt like a completely different country. Suddenly leaving the EU was the most important issue in the UK and people seemed so angry. Also it was the first time my half Brit/European dc had problems being called names at school.

I do hope that things in the UK improve but it has left the worlds biggest (next door) trade block with 440 million consumers and that has inevitably damaged the UK economy.

Yeah, I've heard other people say that @cafecreme.

I'm finding it alarming how many of the young people we know seem to be trying to find ways to leave.