Euthanasie, dont legalise in UK.

[MrsMarkieParkie]

I just read that 8% of deaths in Canada last year happened via euthanasia. This doesnt sit right with me. Also, as described in the article, the protocol seems mostly the same as the US death by lethal injection.
Do we want this in the UK?

I was with my father in his final illness with renal failure. He had Alzheimer's. He was frightened and in pain. It was utterly horrible and pointless. I got the morphine pumped up but he lingered on. He was nearly 90. If I could have chosen for him to die a week earlier I would have made that choice.

Once you have dementia you can't choose to go as you don't have capacity.

Also if you do decide to go whilst you have capacity there are various methods of suicide (and no doubt many more on the internet) which you can choose to use.

Expecting some poor doctor to bump you off because you wrote something years ago is not fair on the doc. I wouldn't kill someone when they can be sedated with morphine. Sadly it is the time they take to die using this method which is the problem.

I want euthanasia. For me it's a personal decision often the women in my family tend to live long lives 90's but the last decade of that is spent in a dementia home. It's a horrid existance (to me) that I don't want to go through and I don't want my children to go through. I've seen people die slowly of cancer and that is awful aswell. Body stops really being able to process food/ water and it can take weeks of hardcore painkillers that aren't always effective whillst people whither away sucking on the odd ice chip.

It's fair to say you don't want Euthanasia and I had a great Aunt who lived in the Netherlands (till 94) and didn't wanted to be euthanised, she spent much of the last ten years in increasing pain but it was her choice and her mind remained sharp which was a blessing.

It's a personal choice and yes there should be safeguards. However a few extreme examples should not be the basis on which are the laws are made. There's a reason for the saying "Hard cases make bad laws" The previous case law on euthanasia/ assisted suicide in the UK is emotive and painful to listen to, does anyone remember Diane Pretty? She had MND and wanted to control the time of her death and have it agreed her husband could help her commit suicide without fear of prosecution as she didn't want to be ventilated / choke/ drown in her own saliva.

By not introducing euthanasia/ PAS we are condemning people in many cases to drawn out deaths which we wouldn't let a dog suffer.

https://www.dignityindying.org.uk/why-we-need-change/personal-stories/

nltimes.nl/2023/04/05/one-20-deaths-netherlands-last-year-euthanasia

5.1% of deaths in The Netherlands last year was due to euthanasia, up from 4.9% the previous year. There's a general upward trend. Most were people in old age. A very tiny amount - very tiny - were due to mental health (sorry, read what that figure was a few days ago but I can't find it now).

I'm not entirely sure of the Dutch protocol but I do know that the way the Canadians go about it is shocking. I've heard a few others who looked into that system say similar. I think there was even a programme recently with Pru Leith and her son looking at all the different systems. One was pro and one was anti euthanasia, but the one thing they agreed on was that the Canadian system was bad.

I think this is part of what stops parties looking at it.

The tories not keen on being seen as the party happier to do it and labour it’s not really their bag.

It’d interesting to see what proportion of electorate are for it.

I always agreed with euthanasia for people who are suffering with no way out but the way Canada is applying it concerns me immensely.

Vulnerable people being offered it, pressured into it, talks of (or it actually happening to) it being offered to minors, expanding to mental illness. Nope, don’t agree.

YABU. If I was terminally I'll and had mental capacity I'd want to be able to decide to die peacefully at a time of my choosing. I don't want to suffer agony and indignity until my body finally gives up.

There are lots of studies that show the majority of the population are in favour of euthanasia for people suffering a terminal illness. I found this one contrasting with MP's opinions interesting. I think MP's are concerned it'll be what they are remembered for. Maggie Thatcher: milk snatcher type thing but as a granny killer

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/health/articles-reports/2021/08/04/three-quarters-britons-support-doctor-assisted-sui

I do not want it. It is monstrous; fraught with risk and opens the floodgates to bump off your relatives with impunity. There could never be enough safeguards. People would ask for it so as not to be a burden- even when they didn’t want to go. It’s awful.

A leading campaigner for euthanasia in the late 20th century was a writer called Beverley Nichols. He wanted it when he was very, very ill. Guess what? He recovered.

So it more than doubled in a year?

Well this perfectly shows the issue well found. Yes I agree with you as an MP making the decision and the reputation from it is a tough one.

It took my beloved mum 3 weeks to die in agony. We knew there was no way back and she was in so much pain. Absolutely appalling end for her.

I 100 percent support assisting dying, with appropriate safeguards.

8% of deaths happening via euthanasia doesn't sound unreasonable to me. You'd have to know roughly what proportion of deaths are in a situation where death is (a) going to be inevitable across a timescale of weeks or months and (b) either the actual death will be very unpleasant/painful or the last weeks/months very unpleasant or painful. Then multiply that by whatever fraction for what proportion of people will prefer to get it over with. I don't know what those 2 factors are but I could believe a resulting outcome of anything between 5% and 20%.

You do realise OP that precisely zero of those 8% would have been alive, well and living a fulfilling and positive life a year later if they hadn't taken that decision? They would all be dead anyway but having suffered a lot more and probably with some severely traumatic memories among the living who cared for them during that time.

Many final deaths are eventually asphyxiation when the lungs can't get oxygen into the body any more. For many people it's the unpredictable timescale that causes the most distress. I would much rather have a controlled, predictable injection than wait around for an unavoidable and unpleasant end to happen some time soon but in an uncontrollable way.

I would like it to be available. People should be able to be in control of their deaths. If they have a terminal illness, why should anyone have to suffer? It's a personal choice. If you don't like it, don't have one.

I agree completely

I have capacity but after brain bleed little else and I pray every day for the release that is denied me...I just want to not be here

i knew a girl who decided to be Euthanized

she had disabilitys since birth that meant she was unable to walk or do anything was in pain all the time, she also could hardly talk and now pretty much had nothing but a head and torso with a brain to think but no way to communicate. she was blind and deaf and had a colostromy bag.

She used to spend 24 hours a day in bed with carers coming in but she didnt have anyone else, no family etc and was on a million pills a day for the pain.

I often think about her and im happy she is now at rest. she was only 24 .. she could have had a loooong miserable life otherwise

For me it's quality of life and not quantity. I absolutely want this here.

I have first hand experience of this...I lived in Switzerland a few years ago and my amazing mum who was diagnosed with MND travelled from the U.K. out to Zurich to end her life by assisted suicide at Dignitas. I attended the clinic with her and was with her when she died. In the face of a cruel and brutal disease, she got the peaceful death that she so desired, at the time of her choosing. It was a privilege to share this with her.

For me there is a distinct difference between euthanasia (where a doctor or health care professional administers drugs that will result in death) and assisted dying (where the individual themselves takes the drugs that have been provided to them). I'm actually in agreement with both for life limiting illnesses as long as there are stringent and robust checks to ensure no coercion, but I do think assisted dying is maybe easier to rationalise and also provide a safe framework for. If anyone is interested, I did an AMA a few years back about the experience.

I wouldn't kill someone when they can be sedated with morphine.

Not everyone can be sedated with morphine.
Some people can react very badly to it (delirium, confusion) and can’t be given it or similar.

More commonly, the pain is so great the amount needed to relieve it would also push the person into unconsciousness and death and doctors won’t do it.

Sometimes the syringe driver won’t stay in because the person is thrashing around or ripping it out in confusion and it’s dangerous.

The idea that everyone can just spend their last months or weeks in some unconscious pain free morphine induced cocoon is a total myth. Many of us have seen that’s not the case at all for a very sizeable minority. I feel like the public has been lulled into a false sense of security about this probably as some sort of kindness but it’s not the case. You don’t realise it until someone you’re close to is in that position.

If I got anything like my family members I would be on a plane to Switzerland. Being locked in your own body with it failing is horrible. Knowing that your breath is due to your muscles not working anymore and suffocating to death whilr your brain is still completely with it.

Here's an article I found

nationalpost.com/news/canadian-veterans-assisted-suicide

I am hugely favour euthanasia, it would save a lot of suffering.

This is general - not just to you - but can we stop using the phrase "put to sleep"? This is a euphemism for pet euthanasia, not the potential death of a person close to you. Even mentioning how animals are dealt with - positively or negatively - while discussing human euthanasia is somewhat distasteful.

Was the assessment at your instigation?