To think I'm just not friend material

[Dreamegg]

I'm a woman in my mid 30s who's 'lovely, totally chill, genuine and normal (as recently described in a reference by my former landlady who I lodged with for 3 years).

But I cannot make friends. I have a couple of really good, long-term friends from my school days, but that's it (but I rarely see them, we now live far apart). I've joined club after club, joined various courses, and volunteered for many causes over the years, absolutely nobody takes an interest in me, talks to me, cares about me. I try to stick with groups, but nothing gets better, I always feel like an awkward outsider who nobody remembers, and I end up leaving. I'm interested in everyone, ask questions, offer support and help and suggest meeting up etc. Nobody ever makes an effort back. Any tips on how I can start to accept this?

Why do some people seem so attractive to others, why others are sidelined though? Do some of us just have 'don't bother with us' vibes? I don't care for making friends at work, but as an example, I started a new job 7 months ago at the same time as a couple of other new starters. One woman who started at the same time as me is really unpleasant; difficult, bitchy, boasts about herself non-stop. But everyone now flocks to her when she's in the office? She walks into the office to a chorus of 'Hi how are you, how's xyz, how are your kids?' Etc etc. She regularly meets some colleagues outside work for coffee and yoga. I walk in and nobody bats an eyelid unless I speak first. It makes me really sad.

I've noticed it's often because they are physically attractive and just have a pleasant tone in their voice.
My sister has so many friends who make an effort with her. She's out so often whereas I often have to make an effort.
Im way more cynical by nature and probably just not that lovely natured.

The horrible person at your work is likely to be sucked up to by others so she doesn't single them out for nasty treatment. Try and just be yourself when meeting new people and although difficult perhaps don't try to hard as that may come across as needy. Good luck op I'm sure there are people out there for you to be friends with. 😁

I would suggest trying to make friends a little more carefully via bumble. It seems thrusting yourself upon groups that naturally occur isn't working, so maybe go online and see if anyone local is more suitable for your brand of friendship

IMO it’s unusual for someone to be a lodger (sorry). Everyone I know lives with parents, owns their home, or privately rents their home in the entirety. No one shares with strangers in an unsecured tenancy such as lodging. If the “bitchy” colleague has more of a stereotypical home situation, especially an aspirational lifestyle, people will flock to her. People want friends like them ultimately. Might not be right but it’s easier for people to connect if they relate.

your colleague is more outgoing whereas you’re just a bit socially awkward. You might not like her, but she’s taken the time to get to know your colleagues as it seems they’ve shared things about their lives. Colleagues don’t do yoga together unless they like each other’s company, so she can’t be all bad.

You could go on a work course for networking as they do help with soft socialisation skills. I think tone the friendship attempts back, as asking questions and suggesting meet-ups can come across as overbearing if they’re not interested. Let people naturally show an interest in you before putting yourself out there. Do you “click” with the people you’re inviting out?

I don't think the flocking and talking necessarily means people especially like that person or want them as an actual friend. I mean, they might do, but not necessarily. I think there's a lot of going through the social motions when it comes to all the chatting and interacting required to blossom into a friendship. But I'd say 90% of all of it is just fluff that fill the gaps and stems boredom and loneliness (hence why it's so successful at work). The coffee and yoga is in this category. Occasionally you click with someone as a friend off the bat and don't need the fluff, but I think that's really rare.

Given all of the above if you aren't putting yourself forward and participating in the fluff in the manner that fits with other's expectations then it's really tough because they look past you to others. But it doesn't mean in the slightest that you aren't friend material. To be honest I'd even been inclined to say more the opposite - you'll be a great friend when you can just find your people.

I struggle to be one of the people who can do all the chit chat and end up on the peripherals as a result (with one or two good friends). Interestingly if I try super hard to emulate the ways others do it- lots of eye contact, speaking confidently, smiling, telling stories but also asking them questions, then it all goes very well and I walk away with a social buzz. But it's not really me so it feels very fake and uncomfortable and I therefoee don't bother.

Probably funny light hearted and pleasant

Also you need to remind yourself that you do have friends. Are you able to reach out to them and start a conversation? Might make you feel better.

I personally have been the popular person at work and hated it. Work friendships are fickle and can be like playing a game of chess sometimes- you need to grit your teeth and feign interest in people you don’t like sometimes. Be nice to their face when you know they’ve been gossiping about you etc. Don’t assume that the grass is greener- it is best to have a few genuine friendships

@retrosteamband Being a lodger is VERY common, in London at least! The only way a lot of people can afford to pay their mortgage is to take in a lodger. And the shortage of housing means that, as a tenant, you're forced to take the risk if you find something affordable and convenient. It works both ways though - if someone is terrible to live with, legally you can pay up and pretty much just leave.

I lodged in a flat with a woman in her 40s who bought her husband out when they divorced, but was struggling to afford it. DP's brother lodges with a guy who owns their flat with his sister, but she moved in with her boyfriend. Someone we know bought a house recently with plans to take on a lodger to more easily afford the mortgage. And one of my old work colleagues has a lodger literally so she can afford to go skiing a few times a year...

I do feel for you, it takes time and sometimes it's really hard to find people to "click with" or just go for a lunchtime coffee with to feel a bit less isolated in the daily workplace grind.

Prior to the pandemic I used to find it quite easy to make just one or two good friends in the workplace or via evening classes, it has definitely got more difficult. I also changed jobs about 8 months ago and am finding my new coworkers really hard work. When I leave (which will be as soon as I find a suitable job) I doubt I'll stay in touch with anyone except maybe one of my immediate coworkers, and this is unusual for me. Everywhere else I've worked I've usually left with at least one good, long term friend that I've stayed in touch with for years and am often still in touch with.

It may just be that you've not found your tribe yet? Oh, and as an aside, as someone who's had various living situations over the years, with non judgy people, your living situation should be irrelevant. I suspect anyone who's not encountered others who are lodgers or live in a shared house has had a very sheltered and rather privileged existence so far...!

While in previous workplaces I've sometimes had to work at building friendships over a period of time, I've found in my new workplace that hardly anyone listens to anyone else, they're much too busy banging on about their own lives, mostly. They don't even talk about what's in the news or what they've watched on Netflix which have been great starting points everywhere else I've worked. Here it's taken almost 9 months before many of them even return my smile in the corridor, yet ironically the higher ups at this organisation are always drivelling on about being one team and dead friendly and the best place to work in its group in the region. (I strongly suspect a lot of them didn't get out much before the pandemic either.....!!! And certainly didn't leave their little work village often, as it were.)

If I wanted to make what I call hello friends here I would have to opt for very banal conversations and spend a lot of time asking them about their gym routine/grandchildren/where they got their dress/shoes etc. I'm hoping it's just a hangover from COVID but the organisation has such a high attrition and turnover rate I doubt it, my last organisation wasn't anything like this despite our mainly working remotely.

I've always had a fairly independent streak and I've found I'm having to rely on it much more these days in the workplace, unfortunately. I don't have a clear answer, but you're not the only one going through a very odd time in terms of work and other friendships being tough to build!

Thanks, you sound very similar to me. Can't stand fluff, I just can't engage.

I'm not bothered by the fact I'm not 'popular' I'd hate that! I quite like being on the peripheral with people who are more my kind of people. It's just this feeling of always being overlooked for some reason.

OP, I think maybe you send out the vibe that you don't like inane chitchat and 'fluff'. Which you don't. There's nothing wrong with that. Not wanting to discuss last night's Corrie or the masked singer doesn't make you unlikeable, as your ex-landlady agrees. And people are just responding accordingly.

If you get on with people and they are happy to work with you, that's all that is needed at work.

I found the same at the last company I was at. The 'queen bee' in the office excluded me and at first I minded, but then I listened to her conversation and it was bitchy behind people's backs, and involved a lot of getting drunk in curry houses. It wasn't really something I would have found enjoyable anyway. I was regarded as 'highbrow' because I did a crossword one lunchtime.

Just enjoy being yourself and let them get to know you. Those who have things in common with you will engage. The ones who don't probably aren't suited as friends anyway.

My DS once told me I could describe making a cup of tea sound interesting. I saw my GP two days ago and I made her really laugh a full on belly laugh.

My Mother had been on stage when young and really could light up a room, none of us children can quite live up to her, people were really drawn like moths to the flame. But myself and my sisters are people that people always want to talk to.

My absolute love is military history, I do know two historians but generally people aren’t interested so I’m happy to talk about all sorts, some is just chit chat. You probably come off as quite stand offish.

You are confusing personality and values
Personality will attract people, so you could be vibrant, amusing, quirky, interesting, etc
You could also be decent, honest and caring. That's what makes people stick with you.
If you have a lack lustre personality, so pretty boring, it won't matter that you're a good listener or helpful. Family and people you've known a long time will know and appreciate these qualities, but others might not.
I know lots of people that are really decent people but they're not my friends. They're good if I want someone reliable at work but they're not great company. It doesn't mean I dislike them, I just don't like them if that makes sense.
Some people have personality traits that most people find attractive. I bet this woman can be irritating at times whereas youre agreeable and pleasant but i bet she smiles and laughs. Thats attractive.

I am quite a shy person but I find the following methods work:

Maintain an air of general cheerfulness and friendliness

Take a friendly interest in others, and make lots of small talk on a 121 basis - don’t try to break into established groups

After this, only cultivate people you’re genuinely drawn to, then you will come across as genuine too

Look out for and respond immediately to ‘buy’ signals (signs they like your company)

Take up new hobbies/volunteering that you’re genuinely interested in, not just to make friends. Your passion will shine through and draw others to you.

Good luck OP

I see you don't like talking about fluff, I think, though, that's really how you make friends. You talk about fluff, you start to build a connection, have rapport and it goes from there. It's a numbers game too because you're not going to end up being friends with everyone so in a hobby situation, if you met 20 people you might only connect with one, and if you find it difficult to make friends then that ratio might be higher for you.

I experience the same kind of thing. I think I’m a bit socially awkward and don’t have many people I have things in common with because I don’t try to be mainstream.

I have plenty of acquaintances who I can chitchat with when I see them at work or wherever but they’ll never show any interest in seeing me outside that setting.

Luckily I have one friend who I do get along with really well. She’s one of these people who draws others to her so I am one of many, many friends but I can live with that and don’t ask too much.

I can’t give you any good advice as I am in the same boat. Just keep smiling and don’t give up - there are people out there who you will get along with.

You are welcome to drop me a message if you want. Always up to chat x

Could you be autistic/ neurodiverse? That isn't a bad thing at al but it is often the missing puzzle piece for people trying to understand what's going on and why they don't seem to be able to do what is natural for others.

I would say the vibe I get from your post is that you seem to see others as part of a group or generally "people" - I don't know how to describe but when I make friends I make friends with a person not a group or for the sake of a friendship. I have to like a person, and they like me, and we build on that over time. It's a reciprocal relationship with an individual person with whom I have a connection of some sort. Does that make sense? Maybe it's just the way you've worded it but it sounds like you are approaching making friends in a way like you've read it in a manual rather than building relationships with people because you like them?

I would also say that being someone who people react to when you walk into a room is completely different to whether you can build meaningful friendships with people you genuinely like and connect with

Can you tell funny stories about yourself? Remembering people’s names and their important relatives/ pets helps - I’m hopeless at that. I sometimes write then in my phone

The way friendships work is that you need to establish that you are interested in communicating with that person specifically, you then find points of interest, then you do something together, and after some time you have more meaningful chat. That's just how it works. You don't dive into "would you like to go to A place together" or "tell me why it was hard living with your brother" with a stranger, you find what interests match up first and build on it. If you stubbornly won't do introductory chat or "fluff", then I don't know how you would ever get to being friends with someone. Has your way ever worked in the past? If so then you'll need to replicate that situation and process somehow. If it hasn't, maybe it's time to accept that if you want friends then you'll need to take a more standard route to getting to know the candidates.

Only one person can be the centre of attention. That type of person is in the minority.
Seek to have more personal times with chatty coffees, movie 'dates' or going to a show, gallery or ballet and dinner with just one or two friends who you can discuss what you see and feel with and all be equally heard.
These people might not be from work but from a film club, a church group, a friend of your sister etc.
Gradually you might get to know some people who like to do similar things once a fortnight or so and then you might ask them over for a cup of tea or to help plant your vegies, make Christmas cakes or walk your dog.
You need to think broad mindedly, take every one at face value and know that all people find making friends tricky.

To have up to five good friends is normal; to have leads is very unusual. Don't discount meeting up with your sibling or a cousin or neighbour.

Everyone loves my fiancé. Come to think of it everyone loves his dad too. They are both very funny and charming and can turn it on with anyone. Some people are just like that.

I’m not as good as my fiancé at chatting to strangers but after a period of thinking I didn’t really have any friends, I have come to realise recently that I have more than a lot of people.

OP it sounds as though you aren’t putting the ground work in before you suggest meeting up with people. You have to engage in the inane chit chat.

I actually very recently made a new friend and without analysing it too closely it went a bit like this:

• met and chatted a few times in a group situation
• she followed me on SM
• engaged with each other’s SM a bit and messaged through that platform
• Swapped numbers
• met for lunch as a friend date and had a great time. We have met up a few times since

Typing that out making friends is just like finding a romantic partner really, the rules are very similar!

I think this is excellent advice ^^.

I hate fluff and I find groups of women and men quite intimidating!

I think joining groups is a very hard way to go about things actually as a group dynamic is much harder to break in to somehow. A much better strategy is to try and bond with other individuals at the periphery.

I know you are not looking for friends at work op, but I agree with pp that sometimes we don't click with a particular company dynamic in the office, or vice versa, and there's no rhyme or reason to it, and it's no reflection on ourselves, especially when so many people are working from home nowadays.

In addition, I think it's partly London (of course it's not being a lodger that's the issue; many young professionals lodge or flat share) because the capital is quite a demanding place to live in, and people commute long distances, they don't have a lot of spare time or energy left over for friendships, and when they do, they only have the bandwidth to focus on a few people. Also, there are just so many people looking for friendships that it's harder somehow!

One other thing, I was slightly surprised by your op when you said "absolutely no one takes an interest in me, talks to me, cares about me" because I think all of those three things taken together , is quite a high expectation at the outset for someone looking for friendships, as that sort of relationship takes a long time to build, it's almost more the sort of brief one would have when looking for a partner, so maybe lower your expectations a little?

Bluntly I think what other people are attracted to in friends is:

• self reliance
• a certain level of cheerfulness and positivity
• competence at life
• that they are interested in others but not hugely needy
• ability to laugh at yourself

So speaking generally, I think people are much more likely to want you as a friend if you give out the vibe that you are not looking for one!

So I'd give yourself a break in other words. As the pp said, I'd just focus on doing things that bring you pleasure for yourself, and if a friendship arises out of that then fine and if not, you have enjoyed yourself anyway!

You say you ask lots of questions of people, but do you talk about yourself or wait until asked a question to let them know about yourself? Eg , "oh wow, you went to X on the weekend? I love that place, I went there with my ex and have so many lovely memories of it. We ate at ....etc".

You need to draw them in, share snippets about yourself that are relatable to them, so that they feel they know you.

It takes practice and a certain amount of confidence to do it, but you really can't wait for the other people to make that effort because as you've discovered, most of them won't.

@Talkingtomyhouseplants Thanks, that's nice that your friendship kind of grew via social. I think this is part of the problem actually. I don't use social media, I don't really like it, it's fake and I also don't want my personal information out there in the world. But people I know all stay in touch with their friends and make new connections via SM and I'm always out of the loop. DP for example has a specific interest and is involved in campaigning - he's got 80k followers on Twitter and has met loads of friends through it. (In the pre Musk days of Twitter anyway).

And I agree, making friends is similar to dating, which is something else I'm terrible at!