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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU to think that people who rape or murder children should not ever be released from prison

84 replies

redglobox · 05/04/2023 16:09

Reading about yet another man who raped and murdered a child being released from prison.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11941953/Child-killer-raped-murdered-seven-year-old-niece-released-45-years-bars.html#comments-11941953

Just like Colin Pitchford before him.

Surely the vast majority of us think that if a person rapes or murders a child they should never be released.

Who makes the rules that allow this? Who wants this? Who thinks this is the right thing to do? This isn't justice. I can't imagine how the victim's family feel seeing him walking from jail free. Life should mean life.

(For what it's worth, I'll be writing to my MP again to say, again, that these people should get life without the possibility of parole)

Monster who raped and murdered his seven-year-old niece is released

In 1977 Peter Chester raped and murdered his niece Donna Marie while she slept in her bed. The monster was given life but today he's a free man serving 45-years and gaining parole.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11941953/Child-killer-raped-murdered-seven-year-old-niece-released-45-years-bars.html#comments-11941953

OP posts:
Clementineorsatsuma · 05/04/2023 22:45

Laiste · 05/04/2023 18:02

Chester went to his sister’s flat while drunk and while looking for the bathroom, entered his niece’s bedroom and raped and strangled her.

The married killer then placed Donna Marie back under the bed covers as though she was asleep and put her favourite cuddly toy alongside her.
Her mother found the body of her daughter the following morning.

I'd say hanging him is justice, but i know not everyone feels the same.

Average cost to keep a man in prison is 46k per year. Out of interest.

This needed a TW as some of us chose not to read the article.

FrostyFifi · 05/04/2023 22:52

Re sentencing, it is actually pretty carefully considered here in the UK and in general law and order/public safety/incidence of violent crime is better in places where you have complex and thought through sentencing guidelines

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-65173054

Sean Hogg outside the High Court in Glasgow

Teenage rapist's sentence condemned as 'not justice'

Sean Hogg was ordered to carry out 270 hours of community sentence for raping a 13-year-old girl.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-65173054

Nigvor · 05/04/2023 22:53

@FrostyFifi If you're talking to me then of course we do need a criminal justice system and that includes penalties and incarceration. But the act of locking up any one individual doesn't contribute a great deal to public safety. We're not playing whack a mole here. What contributes to public safety is having a transparent predictable and accountable judicial and legal system including proper law enforcement, defence and access to justice. To a certain extent.

(Tbh to my mind if you really want to get tough on crime and the causes of crime you need to tackle the big societal problems in the round - want, neglect, impoverishment of education and human experience etc - just because when you look at countries with low crime rates that's what they've done .)

ThinWomansBrain · 05/04/2023 23:02

There are issues with behaviour issues with complete life time sentences - and it would be a huge improvement in our prison system achieved more in the way of rehabilitation.
I am more concerned about the Scottish guidelines to sentencing - young rapists under the age of 24 getting non custodial sentences.
Outrage as man walks free after rape of 13-year-old girl in Scotland | Crime | The Guardian

Nigvor · 05/04/2023 23:03

@Iam4eels agree with you for the most part especially your points about the potential to create bad laws with knee jerk reactions.

Wrt whole life tariffs, they are used in the UK, maybe a little more than some other N European countries, definitely less than in the USA, I think the balance is about right. The guidelines are very detailed and there's a lot of flex within them which is crucial if you want to avoid being like bloody Alabama or somewhere where folks were ending up with life sentences the third time they stole a bloody car.

Groutyonehereagain · 05/04/2023 23:04

They should die, slowly.

Daisybuttercup12345 · 05/04/2023 23:04

missingthewinchesterboys · 05/04/2023 17:25

I actually read a book that imagined a uk with prisons on it's islands. So Lundy was the main island in the story but they mentioned others equally hard to escape from.
All prisoners were dropped on the island and left to run their own prisons, no guards and supplies air dropped once a week.

I think we should do that for any sexual offenders

Yes as long as the were completely escape proof.

FrillyGoatFluff · 05/04/2023 23:06

Always4Brenner · 05/04/2023 18:18

Life should mean life you leave in a coffin.

A bin bag would do

IsolatedWilderness · 05/04/2023 23:08

It should apply no matter the age of their victim.

FrumptyMumpty · 05/04/2023 23:12

I genuinely believe that paedophiles and rapists should have it surgically lopped off.

Their consenting would equal regret and commitment to change.

Stopping them reproducing is probably an added bonus.

Nigvor · 05/04/2023 23:15

@ThinWomansBrain ach, I don't know what considerations led to that particular sentence, sure it was not just his age.

I do think that there are some crimes our particular style of trial doesn't cover well at all. Rape and sexual assault especially, our figures are woeful. Partly because misogyny (rape and sexual assault convictions are terrible everywhere) but partly also because it's based on two people arguing in court. Eg France (to my mind a really very misogynistic society) has much higher conviction rates for rape and sexual assault because they have an investigative system. So there are still two sides but they're overseen all the way through the justice process and it's not as openly adversarial so judges get to consider nuances better.

France is also much better at nailing fraudsters and white collar criminals for similar reasons - lawyers don't get to bamboozle juries desperately trying to keep up with swathes of complex information. (But then some of the more straightforward 'he punched that guy in a bar' cases also get derailed by nuance. Bloody French.)

DdraigGoch · 05/04/2023 23:20

When you consider that a man who raped a 13 year old in Scotland was let off with community service recently, 45 years inside is a decent stretch.

Flandango · 05/04/2023 23:23

Question for those of you advocating the death sentence for child murderers. Do you think Sally Clark should have been hanged?

SunshineGeorgie · 05/04/2023 23:25

MereDintofPandiculation · 05/04/2023 18:07

I wonder about the safety of prison officers in prisons where there are a large number of people who have no hope of release.

It's an experience! I promise

SunshineGeorgie · 05/04/2023 23:26

Flandango · 05/04/2023 23:23

Question for those of you advocating the death sentence for child murderers. Do you think Sally Clark should have been hanged?

Good point!

Interested in opinions on female killers..

FrostyFifi · 05/04/2023 23:28

Question for those of you advocating the death sentence for child murderers. Do you think Sally Clark should have been hanged?

That's a good point tbf.

I think most people would be happy with sentences of a decent length or whole life sentences for these types of cases. The death penalty chat is often coming from a sense of frustration.

Lockheart · 05/04/2023 23:30

The Daily Mail comments section is leaking again I see.

A life sentence is always a life sentence. What most on here are ignorant of is that a sentence is not solely custodial and never has been. A sentence =/= prison.

Secondly, this man would have been sentenced under the guidelines at the time and has served his sentence accordingly. The sentencing guidelines have changed much in the last 30 years but for good reason we cannot apply new law to old cases. If the crime was committed now he could well face a whole life tariff, which would mean he would never be released from prison. But that was not an option when he was convicted all those years ago.

Exhausteddog · 05/04/2023 23:31

Flandango · 05/04/2023 23:23

Question for those of you advocating the death sentence for child murderers. Do you think Sally Clark should have been hanged?

She didn't murder her children though.

Was she not jailed on the (flawed) evidence of one Dr?

JockTamsonsBairns · 05/04/2023 23:37

Iam4eels · 05/04/2023 22:14

Stats are online and easily available with even the most cursory of Googling. The death penalty costs exponentially more than life imprisonment and it is not a deterrent. It also disproportionately impact boys/men from ethic minorities, poor socio-economic backgrounds, and those with learning disabilities/neurodevelopment conditions. If you are a young black man from a por background with ADHD then you're basically fucked if you end up on trial for murder, particularly if your crime was against a white person. It's a shit system and is not justice, it's purely about revenge and is state sanctioned murder.

Completely agree. Your posts are spot on.

Iam4eels · 05/04/2023 23:37

Exhausteddog · 05/04/2023 23:31

She didn't murder her children though.

Was she not jailed on the (flawed) evidence of one Dr?

Show quote history

So by that logic what happens when John Jones is convicted of the murder of a child and executed but then it emerges the evidence was flawed?

Exhausteddog · 05/04/2023 23:46

Iam4eels · 05/04/2023 23:37

So by that logic what happens when John Jones is convicted of the murder of a child and executed but then it emerges the evidence was flawed?

Show quote history

I'm not arguing in favour of the death penalty. I'm pointing out she shouldn't have been jailed in the first place (which has happened with both male and female prisoners)

Nigvor · 05/04/2023 23:49

But if you've got the death penalty, tough shit on the people who shouldn't have been convicted.

Nigvor · 05/04/2023 23:50

I mean at least if they're in jail you can just let them out again.

Winter2019 · 05/04/2023 23:51

No, he should be tortured to death.

Nigvor · 05/04/2023 23:56

Calm the fuck down Ferdinand.