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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

I don't think I'm glad my sex offender sibling is dead

90 replies

nakechange · 04/04/2023 20:50

The thread about PS has been making me think.

Some years ago my sibling was charged with non contact online child sex offences. He was found to have 1000s of images of children in all categories across all his internet enabled devices. He completed suicide a few days after he was charged.

He never told me about the charges. I found out after his death as there was bail paperwork in his home which detailed the charge. Although he was never convicted, the information I now have makes me 100% sure he committed these offences.

I have children of my own. I'd never have allowed any form of contact with them. I'd protect them.

I still wish he was alive.

I often wonder about what relationship I would have with him had he not completed suicide. I'm sure I would have visited him in prison. I'd have wanted to understand why he committed these offences, and what if anything could have prevented this behaviour. There are so many questions. I'd like to think I could separate the offence from the person. He was more than just a child dec offender. I can't accept that offenders should be ostracised from society for life, however know I would protect my children from them.

Is my thinking skewed? Most on that thread would think so, even call me scum. Maybe I just need more therapy!

OP posts:
wordonthestreetisthat · 05/04/2023 03:37

Because he sadly committed suicide, your thinking may be different than if he hadn't.

Maggie178 · 05/04/2023 06:07

You can't help who you love. You have an attachment to your brother. You'll mourn his loss and also mourn the loss of the person you thought he was. I'm sorry for you're loss.

TheyIndeed · 05/04/2023 06:23

I haven't been in this situation so I couldn't remotely guess at how I'd feel, however, I do have people in my life who some Mumsnet posters would have me simply cut out, like some modern idealistic version of a medieval morality play.

I can't and won't do that. They're family and I love them, for all that they're messed up, complicated, flawed people. Life isn't that black and white, and I can see clearly how they are the products of generations of abuse and hardship and poverty. We'll never have easy going relationships but that doesn't mean I'm going no-contact.

In your case, you're allowed to love and miss the person who was your brother and who you grew up with and loved OP. You can do that while 100% hating the things he did and that others do.

Sugarplumfairy65 · 05/04/2023 06:53

TheHoodedPaw · 05/04/2023 01:37

Unnecessary.

Show quote history

Not unnecessary at all. If you'd been abused as a child, you'd feel the same.

TheHoodedPaw · 05/04/2023 07:00

Sugarplumfairy65 · 05/04/2023 06:53

Not unnecessary at all. If you'd been abused as a child, you'd feel the same.

Show quote history

You have no idea about me as I do not about you. But I can feel compassion for a bereaved sister, regardless of the circumstances.

AlwaysGinPlease · 05/04/2023 07:24

I'm so sorry for those here that were abused. I'm not remotely sorry for the abusers/voyeurs no longer being here.

Original poster
nakechange · 05/04/2023 09:59

Just for the avoidance of any doubt, I'm sorry for those that were abused too. I am in no way condoning what he did. It's complex storm of feelings for those who love/d the offender.

OP posts:
TheVanguardSix · 05/04/2023 10:14

I am the mother of a child who was groomed and sexually abused by her father for 5 years. I think the hardest part for me now, at this stage, is dealing with how many adults, his sibling, nieces, and colleagues, have fiercely stood by him, despite being convicted for his heinous crimes. He attempted suicide. For my daughter’s sake, I do wish he’d died. Watching her aunt, cousins, godparents, family friends side with him and abandon her, has been utterly agonising- an additional trauma and a truly motivating factor for us to leave the UK. We aren’t coping. And he has false confidence and bravado because he has a small but mighty army of loyalists feeding his ego and telling him that despite destroying his own child, he’s a pretty swell guy. It hurts beyond belief, to the bones of me.

That all said, I have a heart. And I understand that your sibling is your sibling… it’s hard to walk away from all of that shared history. But doing so is the right thing, 100%.

In your case, you have this abandoned gate that’s been left open, blowing in the wind. You need help in closing it. You’re not your brother or his crimes. But you are his sister who desperately needs peace. I sure hope you can find it OP.

Albiboba · 05/04/2023 10:19

I'd never have allowed any form of contact with them. I'd protect them.

Lucky for you. Unlucky for the 1000s of children that your brother was part of the abuse for.
Too bad for them I guess.

Original poster
nakechange · 05/04/2023 10:21

Albiboba · 05/04/2023 10:19

I'd never have allowed any form of contact with them. I'd protect them.

Lucky for you. Unlucky for the 1000s of children that your brother was part of the abuse for.
Too bad for them I guess.

Unfortunately that's not in the sphere of my influence.

OP posts:
SeemsSoUnfair · 05/04/2023 10:31

Sound like such a difficult situation with complex emotions. Do you think because you never had to face the disturbing reality of what he was involved in - the fact he and his ilk are directly responsible for young children going through the hell of horrific abuse and getting kicks from it - you don't connect him with it?

You never had a chance to see or know that hidden, vile, unforgivable side of him so you can only remember him, see him in your mind and heart as the brother you loved and not the monster he was?

You lost a brother you loved, unexpectedly and too young suicide and I can complete understand why you want to protect yourself and don't want to make the connection between who you knew and loved and what he actually was.

glasshole · 05/04/2023 10:32

@Ktime

You are mistaken for thinking I've displaced any anger, I don't have any anger left. I'm a victim of child hood sexual abuse and then domestic violence. My entire life has been a trauma and I deal with this by being in continuous therapy. It was very difficult at the time as my son was arrested literally Weeks before lock down and then not sentenced for 2 looooong years. I fully dealt with my feelings by then, even before his conviction. What I wasnt ready for though was for it to hit the news and for the facts to be so shockingly incorrect. My children were in real danger, their lives had already been destroyed and then they lost friends, were spat at and we were terrified to leave the house. So I then had to have MORE therapy as the simple truth is that speculation from member's of the public, fuelled by wildly inaccurate "news reports" and them supplying both mine and his dads address was an awful experience for us. But I've dealt with it. Now. But at the time the public hounding was worse than anything else. And unless you have been there you absolutely can not even begin to understand the fear of your house being threatened with petrol bombs by anonymous people on the internet that then publicly re share your address.

Postapocalypticcowgirl · 05/04/2023 10:34

nakechange · 05/04/2023 10:21

Unfortunately that's not in the sphere of my influence.

Show quote history

But it could have been, if he was still alive.

You are assuming a very simplistic outcome, where he is in prison and not free to continue offending. It is not guaranteed that he would have gone to prison at all, and he would likely have been out in a relatively short space of time and living in the community.

You wouldn't have allowed your own children around him, but what if you saw him forming a relationship with a women with children, or his neighbours had children etc? Would you have told people he lived near what he had done, so they could also keep their children safe? What would you have done if your children found out and were disgusted that you maintained a relationship?

I think, in a way, because he has died from suicide, it makes things simpler, because you don't have to deal with the dilemma of whether he would cause more harm, or various scenarios you might have had to deal with, had he lived.

I don't think anyone is irredeemable, but it is true that some people are attracted to young children, and they seek out images for sexual gratification- and in some cases their actions then escalate. There is not always a more complex "why" behind it.

I can understand the lack of closure is difficult for you but I think you are simplifying the "what if" of had he lived.

Knullrufs · 05/04/2023 10:42

It's OK to have complicated and contradictory feelings about awful situations.

You can simultaneously miss your brother, abhor what he did, hate that he lied to you, wish he was still around, and also feel a weird kind of relief that he isn't. The human brain isn't entirely rational or logical and it contradicts itself all the time.

Being kind to yourself doesn't mean letting him off the hook.

Look after yourself. If that means more therapy, get more therapy.

I don't think playing this all out on Mumsnet is necessarily the most helpful route, for you or anyone else. (I don't mean that unkindly.)

Fairislefandango · 05/04/2023 10:44

I have children of my own. I'd never have allowed any form of contact with them. I'd protect them.

You feel how you feel. But if he hadn't been charged / committed suicide, you wouldn't have known to protect your children from him, would you?

Original poster
nakechange · 05/04/2023 10:54

Knullrufs · 05/04/2023 10:42

It's OK to have complicated and contradictory feelings about awful situations.

You can simultaneously miss your brother, abhor what he did, hate that he lied to you, wish he was still around, and also feel a weird kind of relief that he isn't. The human brain isn't entirely rational or logical and it contradicts itself all the time.

Being kind to yourself doesn't mean letting him off the hook.

Look after yourself. If that means more therapy, get more therapy.

I don't think playing this all out on Mumsnet is necessarily the most helpful route, for you or anyone else. (I don't mean that unkindly.)

Yes, Mumsnet is not the place really. It's quite cathartic to write it all out though!

OP posts:
Dilemma19 · 05/04/2023 11:23

I can't accept that offenders should be ostracised from society for life, however know I would protect my children from them

Until your own child is a victim, I'm sure you will change your view then? These vile beings should never be allowed to be part of society. I can't imagine what 'right' you think they deserve?

Season0fTheWitch · 05/04/2023 11:28

I don't think you're scum. You're mourning the loss of your brother who, in his lifetime, you believed was a good person. To lose someone and then find out they weren't who you thought is a horrific ordeal. It's okay to miss him and mourn him, it's also okay to think differently about him. You may be glad he can't offend anymore, but still be sad he's not alive.

If he hadn't completed suicide, and was alive now, you'd probably still be disgusted by his actions but still feel that natural bond you have with a sibling. Even if he was in prison, you'd still think "He did a terrible thing, but he's still my brother" Death doesn't change that, or make it easier to seperate a person from a crime.

Bagsundermyeyestoday · 05/04/2023 12:23

nakechange · 05/04/2023 10:21

Unfortunately that's not in the sphere of my influence.

Show quote history

Up until I read this I was sorry for your loss. This is actually a really terrible statement. There are many millions of other children who have not been so lucky due to people like your brother and for you to dismiss it so easily makes me feel slightly ill. Minimising something as heinous as this is wrong in so many ways, I can't even express my disbelief reading this response. Do you even understand what these predators do in order to get these disgusting pictures. How can you even be so dismissive having young children yourself.

Original poster
nakechange · 05/04/2023 12:33

@Bagsundermyeyestoday

I understand what you are saying but it is out with my control.

I don't condone what he did, I'm repulsed by it. I think my way of coping, is not holding myself responsible for what I did not know. It's not dismissing it, it's accepting I played no part in his crimes.

Had he not killed himself, I'd do what I can in my sphere of influence to protect others. That would include my own children and ensuring he had no contact, as far as I am able to with other children. I'd report any contact to the police.

What I meant and expressed in a rather clumsy way is that I had no knowledge or control of his offending behaviour.

OP posts:
Bagsundermyeyestoday · 05/04/2023 12:44

You really should get some professional counselling to deal with this. Suicide of a loved one is alot to deal with, let alone this situation and all you must be feeling. I hope you feel at peace one day and are able to move on

AlwaysGinPlease · 05/04/2023 13:10

I can't accept that offenders should be ostracised from society for life

Really? I literally have zero sympathy for you reading that. Of bloody course they need to be ostracized. Jesus wept.

Original poster
nakechange · 05/04/2023 15:32

@AlwaysGinPlease - shall we just euthanise them all? What's the solution?

OP posts:
Nimbostratus100 · 05/04/2023 17:26

AlwaysGinPlease · 05/04/2023 13:10

I can't accept that offenders should be ostracised from society for life

Really? I literally have zero sympathy for you reading that. Of bloody course they need to be ostracized. Jesus wept.

ostracised where?

ostracised with who?

ostracised on what income?

I dont think you have thought this through

saying "Jesus wept" at the end of your post like you think this makes what you are saying self evident, does not in fact make it self evident.

What it does is make it clear that you have to pretend what you are saying is self evident, because you cant in fact logically justify or support it of itself, so you are just pretending you don't have to

TomatoSandwiches · 05/04/2023 18:21

nakechange · 05/04/2023 15:32

@AlwaysGinPlease - shall we just euthanise them all? What's the solution?

Sorry op but I think your brother did the right thing, you can not rehabilitate people like this they just get worse in their offending.

I view them like a damaged animal that would need to be put down, I think the very least euthanasia should be an offer on the table, that or in an ideal world incarceration for life.