To just let them all go? (Long Residency Battle)

[RuinedMyFamily]

2017 split with now ExH due to his violence and control. DC was a toddler.

Early 2018 he took me to court initially for full residency with no visitation for me. He was awarded supervised contact, this was supervised by his family.

6 months later he was given unsupervised daytime contact which eventually built up to 2 overnights EOWend and 1 night for tea.

2019 he took me to court for more contact again and was granted 1 overnight in the week, another teatime and 2 nights EOWend (so 4 in 14)

He completely disappeared from our lives from 2020 until early 2021 stating covid was too dangerous. He had daytime contact only for 2021.

Overnights restarted again mid 2021.

Last year he took me back to court again for another variation and was awarded the other teatime as an overnight, so now has 5 in 14.

He’s issued papers again and is now again asking for full residency with EOWend visitation for me. This is what he’s been trying for all along.

DC is now 8, almost 9 and this is what they want. To live with dad and see me at weekends only. I know that if ExH gets residency I will never see my DC again, ExHs parting shot to me in the initial court proceedings where that my DC would eventually hate me as much as he hates me. But proving parent alienation is like finding hens teeth, my solicitor whose been by my side through all this has never successfully in her 20 year career proven PA.

This whole process has cost me over £30k, I can’t keep fighting it. Even if he doesn’t get residency this time, we’ll be dragged back again and again until he gets it. And I keep thinking of all the things I could have had with that money; a mortgage/secure home for DC, a once in a lifetime holiday with DC etc.

He’s never paid me a penny in maintenance because CMS cannot find an income for him and he knows he’d get around £500 a month off me, that with his savings (which I know he has) he’d never have to work again. That’s his aim all along, he refused to work when we were together and has always told me he hates working and doesn’t see why he should have to do it.

I’d never not pay for my DC.

So I’ve said that I will walk into that court and offer to hand DC over to him, I’ll pay my maintenance each month and fight to see them as often as I can, but I can’t keep going back and forth to court, it could cost me another £10-15k and I just can’t afford that. And that’s without the mental toll the repeated court appearences, cafcass involvement, having to get paperwork off school and the GP and everyone else (DC has a minor medical issue) takes on me. And the time off work, I take it as either unpaid leave (to save my AL for using with DC) or AL which means less time with DC. I just can’t do it

But if I do that, I’ll lose my extended family over it.

Both my parents have said I’m giving up, that they’d never give up no matter how much the mental or physical cost. That they’d keep fighting and fighting and fighting to prove to DC that they love them and their rightful home is here with me.

They don’t get when I explain that it’s the emotional cost of repeatedly having my parenting examined, it’s the emotional toll of being undermined, it’s the time off work and my employer while understanding not getting the process either and a change of manager meaning I have to explain the whole process and the whole sorry scenario again. They don’t get that I am scared to even take DC away in this country in case I’m accused of kidnap and lose my rights to see them. They keep repeating the MN line of “abusive men give up when the hardwork starts” well this one hasn’t, he’s been consistent and done everything right, some would even say he’s a fantastic dad.

They’ve told me if I hand DC over then they’re disowning me, and will tell everyone they only have 2 grandchildren instead of 3 because to them I’m giving up on DC, so they’re giving up on me.

And I’m at the point of thinking “f**k em all” and to let it happen, because my self preservation is worth more. But I hate them for it to.

So ExH not only got residency but he’s destroyed me and my family in the process.

I know IABVU but I don’t have a choice or unlimited money.

Could you find a forensic psychologist to prove parental alienation by ex?

Have I written this post in my sleep? This is scarily close to my situation.
With regards to my own, my ex would constantly feed our child crap, let her stay up as long as she wanted, do all the fun stuff that wasn't the monotony of the regular monday-friday.. he became her preferred parent. She ended up moving in with him at 5 years old because she 'hated me', 'didnt love me'. She only wanted her dad. It was the worst decision I ever made letting her go.

Also, my parents told me to fuck off forever for letting her go with him but now are best friends with the twat after calling him a pedophile and pervert for years. They also tried to find out why he was fired from an old job CONVINCED it was because he was a dirty pervert!!

Maybe just like yours as mine, the parents are just as bad as the other parent.

Repeated reports to the police about the violence, all recorded incidences were in the initial cafcass report but according to cafcass they were only against me not DC so don't count.

Don't you qualify for legal aid as a victim of domestic abuse?

Don't give up OP. I went through this with a family member last year. Kids wanted to stay with Dad because there were no rules in his house and they could do what they wanted. Judge ruled that children live with Mum and have contact with Dad as it wasn't in the children's best interests not to have rules. You need to do this for your DC. You can also get an Order so that Ex can't keep applying to Court constantly

Hes using the court to abuse you further. Women’s aid can help you with a free solicitor who specialises in this.

Womens Aid discharged me a year after the split, they felt they couldn't help in my situation.

I do want to keep fighting but I can't afford it. If I have to do it alone I'll just not turn up for court, I don't have the confidence to face him alone, as it is now my solicitior sits in the seat closest to him. I also wouldn't have a clue how to speak to the judge or how to prepare for court. Plus i have to hold down a job.

On the maintenance issue, he lives out of his parents and/or girlfriends bank account, CMS could not find a regular income for him, they have a watch on him and I get a letter occasionally saying they've found an income and I'll recieve X amount then a few weeks later I get another email or letter saying he's no longer in work or earning money so I get an award of £0 before the first payment. He's either working cash in hand, temporary jobs or just living off his parents.

As for his parents they're fairly well off, both retired in their 40s, 2 houses (and the second one isn't rented out of anything they literally live in both), decent cars etc. They're defnitely funding some of him.

Any support to be found at MATCH Mothers?

I am sorry you are experiencing this. I fo think you need to consult another solicitor (or more). You can ask them to be realistic in the circumstances. He is clearly abusive and your children need you.

Try to take care of yourself.

Look up McKenzie friends in your area. Much cheaper than a solicitor if you feel you can't represent yourself. I'm rooting for you

Please don’t give up on your child OP. It sounds very likely that once your ex ends up lumbered with all the hard work, he will give up, which will potentially leave your child without an education, without proper medical attention, poorly nourished and chronically underslept, plus thinking that their dad finds them a nuisance and their mum has abandoned them. Never stop fighting. One day they will see your ex for what he is.

Don't give up. You need to fight or your child because your dc doesn't know what's best for them.

I've been through court more than once for child arrangements and I know how utterly stressful and expensive it can be, but persevere.

I'm not convinced a sensible judge will give your ex residency. You have a strong case consistently being the main caregiver.

I know you fear he'll take you back to court again but isn't there something the judge can do to prevent this?

Stay strong.

Blimey this makes my blood run cold!

Nothing I can add, but I'm so sorry this is happening.

i haven't read the full thread. i don't think you should give up. your dc is too young for wishes and feelings to fully dictate the outcome. your concerns are valid. your dc will know in the future that you did or didn't go to court over this and that alone might make a difference to your relationship down the line. can you apply to Advocate and see if you can get a pro bono lawyer? you need to consider asking for a s91(14) order as well by the sound of things - that would put an end to coming back to court, although no idea if you have the grounds for it but sounds like you have been to court a lot and that's not good for dc's stability. issue with a cafcass s7 report is if they go against you then you are pushing water uphill but it sounds like it would he useful to put this to bed once and for all whether change of residence/ shared care is appropriate, followed by s91(14) order. parental alienation is hard to prove but a child the age of your dc not wanting to live with their primary carer is a cause for some concern and i don't think cafcass would ignore this. anyway, speak to your sol about these things if you can but consider looking for pro bono options as well because the costs sound extreme and it's wholly unfair on you and dc to live like this with constant threat of being taken back to court so hopefully if this is his big push it will end with a barring order so he can't keep bringing it back. very best of luck.

I just wanted to address your comment re home education and no checks. That’s categorically not the case.

I home educate my two DC. They were at school til Y5 (our situation is complex).

Almost everywhere in this country home educating families are being put under enormous scrutiny and pressure. Lots of parents have deregistered their DC due to COVID and the government is very, very keen to get as many children back to school as possible.

In the majority of counties round the country the checks by the local authority are incredibly invasive. Parents have to produce regular reports, hand over evidence of age appropriate work in national curriculum subjects, plus demonstrate how they’re being exposed to a broad and balanced curriculum. Home visits are enforced, often unannounced. In some counties (Portsmouth/Durham for example) it’s virtually impossible for parents to satisfy the local authority and a School Attendance Order gets issued which forces the child back to school.

I am very lucky to live in a county where the LA is supportive and are genuinely great but even I have to produce satisfactory evidence and have regular contact.

Should the worst happen, your ex might be in for a shock. The media doesn’t accurately report the reality of home education - the kids are subject to very heavy checks and scrutiny. From what you’ve said, there’s no way he’d pass the checks.

If you are happy to disclose your county (not town) I can tell you what your LA is like.

But all of that aside, what I’m saying is don’t give up. I know you’re exhausted but he doesn’t have the hand that you think. He’s just making you think that way.

id be throwing everything into fostering a close and loving relationship with my child. Are you a bit snappy (because you’re knackered)? Do you make a concerted effort to find time for fun stuff? Is there anything you could ease up on to make you seem more “fun”?

Of course you shouldn’t have to. Of course not. But if he’s playing dirty you just need to show your child that it’s not just dad that’s the fun parent.

Your child is very little and they don’t understand. They need you to fight for them, even if they don’t realise it yet.

Given up the court battle is not the same as giving up on your child.

Although I believe DC is too young to make a decision, I would respect DC wishes in this case.

I would give up the court battle.

And let him know you will always be there for him. Focus on ways to build your relationship with him when you do see him.

Can you attend court on your own but ask for a screen so you don't have to be next to him?

This is such a shitty situation but you can't give up. Don't let him win. You and DC are worth so much more that that

@SpidersAreShitheads Midlands area, ExH is a different county to me and is likely to move somewhere within the region (he jumps about a lot). Currently ExH is currently Shropshire but has family in Staffordshire, West Mids, Derbyshire and Cheshire.

I fully believe DC is best in school, even though they hate it and ExH doesn't make them go if they say they don't want to. Reasons for school: Stability for DC when they have to change households - school doesn't change massively maybe the teachers sick and they have a sub or the HT teaching them for the day but they're in their classroom with their classmates, DC does like some parts of school - specifically they hate PE and outdoorsy subjects like Forest School they also suspectedly have SN (Not ASD) so do struggle in other subjects I don't believe ExH would force DC out of the house regularly and they'd become insular I think this is worse for their MH than forcing them to school is, School are trying to help DC enjoy school - this year they've been allowed to choose a friend to sit next to been offered a chance to be a helper for the HT occasionally etc. Also DC says they like their teacher and liked last years teacher and the teacher they'll likely get in Y5 so can make positive relationships with adults other than family - I think this is always a benefit to any child and is a useful skill if you don't like someone navigating that etc. The primary school they go to is rated Good with Outstanding features as are all the other local primary schools. I'd agree to a change of school to help the hating situation but I don't think home schooling is in DCs interests no matter how much they dislike school - similarly if I don't like a job I don't just give up work altogether I'd change workplace.

Absolutely don’t give up. Self represent.

If you go for 50/50, say 1 week with you and 1 week with dad, wouldn't DC's school attendance drop during the stay with dad, as he doesn't make DC go? Once the school picks up on this, you will have another 3rd party on your side that can vouch for dad not being a good influence.

Stick this out for another few years and really build up your relationship with DC, so that by the time dad tries for full residency again, and the do take into account where DC wants to live, then maybe DC will be a little older and wiser to dad's influence and choose you?

Alternatively, if he goes for full residency, maybe suggest to the judge that he asks DC why and hopefully DC will give all the reasons you've listed. And hopefully the judge will be able to see that it's not good for DC.

If he doesn’t have an income, how can he afford to support your child full time?

@Meandfour His parents are extremely rich and would support him, they have 2 homes and neither are rented out they literally live in them half the year in each so they'd probably give ExH one of their houses to live in with DC.

I am so so sorry for what you are going through.

This happened to a friend of mine. She eventually threw in the towel because she just couldn't keep fighting and the legal costs ruined her. He had access to unlimited funds for legal and court costs. It was so unfair.

We talked about it at length - her family kept on that she had to keep fighting, but she just couldn't.

This was years ago, and her DC is now married and she is about to become a grandmother. All the love was restored once the DC were grown up and able to make their own minds up.

I appreciate that every situation is different, but I also understand what you are going through. Untimately, you have to decide what it right for your circumstance. And be honest with your DC about what is happening and why.

I will go against the grain (again) and say don’t wear yourself out.
If the kids want to go, just go 50/50, that is the most likely outcome anyway.

I fought for 10 years for my kids. Now the oldest two are full time with their Dad (very recent, and they are just under and just over 18 anyway so completely choose themselves) and I have burnout and full care for the youngest who will never grow up (severe autism +++).

It hurt so much that they have chosen him. He was so abusive, and tried to kill me several times. The boys know this, they asked me a few years ago and I answered truthfully as I didn’t want to cover up for their Dad anymore. They know he has lied and lied to them. Still they went.

I love my kids, but all the fighting was pointless, and now I am so severely reduced I don’t know how I will ever manage to work more than 50% again.
Luckily I managed to scrape by into a good system before I crashed now, so I wont be destitute.

You need to consider yourself in all this. You need to be able to last all the way to old age.
You will always be there for your children, but if you are too worn out it wont be good for them or you.

Self represent or just don’t go. Take the fight out by agreeing to 50% if you feel like the children have been turned anyway.

The viciousness I had to deal with from my children is a part of what has broken me, and I don’t wish it on anyone. I detach from it, I will always love them and welcome them home, but I regret putting up with the mounds of crap for so long - just to be left crawling in the mud at the end of it.

Look after yourself 💐💐

His neglect of their educational and medical needs us a very serious issue that the court would not ignore.
Problem is, dad would say it's not true and it would only be much later that any problems would emerge.

Please don't give up. I know it is really hard. Although my case was different, I stayed with a very abusive man, because my sons would say that if ever we were to divorce they would live with Daddy. According to my children, Daddy was fun, Daddy was clever, Daddy loved them, but all Mummy cared about was her work etc.

The children had been manipulated into saying this, and it was probably the most hurtful element of the abuse.

Like your ex, my ex did not work. He lived off my earnings and waited for his inheritance.

I’d second a McKenzie Friend. They were much cheaper than a solicitor and they also empower you.

I do understand why you’re exhausted and want to give up. Having been through family court it feels as though, it’s a slog, and it’s against you. I was in a similar situation with protective custody and the ex, and then cafcass turned round and said there’s no case to answer, even though SS said the kids needed protecting.

The only way you defeat him is to go around evidencing his ineptitude as a parent.

I think you’ve probably got more time than you think, I’d be surprised if a child’s wishes and feeling are taken into account so early.

But one thing I would, really, seriously urge you to think about…is that giving the kids up won’t mean you’re free of him.

He will taunt you with it for the next ten years. It will start subtle, sending pictures of them having a nice time with his gf, indulging them kids so that you get to hear how they have a better life, but it’ll escalate to withholding contact, poisoning them - Mummy’s not a fit mother, she gave you up, she doesn’t love you, not like me I fought for you.

He’s an abuser. He won’t stop with just getting the kids. He will keep going until you’re a shell of a human - because that’s what he does. And he’ll take your children on the journey with him.