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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think this could solve teachers' problems

478 replies

NovemberRains · 03/04/2023 16:24

Teachers want higher pay.

Their employers currently pay a whopping ~24% into a defined benefit pension scheme!

AIBU to think that a lot of their problems could be solved if they were just given the option to either continue as they are, or get a 20% pay increase and have a 4% employer contribution to a standard defined contribution pension scheme like the vast majority of the population get!

I respect teachers, but based on my knowledge when overall remuneration is considered including pension and holidays, they really aren't underpaid compared to other professions!

It's a similar story for other public sector professions!

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
noblegiraffe · 04/04/2023 23:32

Jeez you know nothing about teaching.

Janedoe82 · 04/04/2023 23:34

noblegiraffe please enlighten me? What part of the standard teachers job isn’t operational?

Sherrystrull · 04/04/2023 23:35

Janedoe82 · 04/04/2023 23:26

Why shouldn’t teachers do their own photo copying?! I manage a multi disciplinary team of over fifty people who are all front line working with people with huge issues, and guess what?? I do my own photocopying. And filing. Because I want to use the budget we have directly on the service users!

You're the one who used this reason for teachers not being underpaid.

Janedoe82 · 04/04/2023 23:36

They are at the front line face between department of education and children.

Sherrystrull · 04/04/2023 23:37

Janedoe82 · 04/04/2023 23:31

They might have to plan lessons- but they aren’t setting the curriculum.
They might have to prepare students for exams, but they aren’t setting them or writing them. They are given detailed plans of what children need to learn, their role is to deliver it.
Hence it being much more operational than strategic.

Teachers are not given detailed plans. I spend hours selecting the correct objectives, crafting them into a unit of work, preparing resources and delivering the lessons. You have no idea and are insulting with your ignorance.

Janedoe82 · 04/04/2023 23:37

Sherrystrull i never actually mentioned photocopying! You did. I was referring more to stuff like organising trips/ assemblies/ open days.

Janedoe82 · 04/04/2023 23:39

‘Teachers are not given detailed plans. I spend hours selecting the correct objectives, crafting them into a unit of work, preparing resources and delivering the lessons. You have no idea and are insulting with your ignorance.’

this is still all operational delivery of something some else is asking you to do. How exactly is 40k not a realistic salary for this?

noblegiraffe · 04/04/2023 23:39

Janedoe82 · 04/04/2023 23:34

noblegiraffe please enlighten me? What part of the standard teachers job isn’t operational?

You're the one wittering about teachers delivering lessons as if teachers aren't in charge of 30 children at a time with a huge level of responsibility not only for their performance, but their wellbeing.

Fucking management speak.

Sherrystrull · 04/04/2023 23:39

Janedoe82 · 04/04/2023 23:37

Sherrystrull i never actually mentioned photocopying! You did. I was referring more to stuff like organising trips/ assemblies/ open days.

So what's your point? Operational tasks mean teachers aren't underpaid? Surely most jobs have a variety of tasks within them that range from mundane to very complex.

noblegiraffe · 04/04/2023 23:39

Seriously, do your mates know you're such a snob about their job?

Lostinalibrary · 04/04/2023 23:40

Janedoe82 · 04/04/2023 23:26

Why shouldn’t teachers do their own photo copying?! I manage a multi disciplinary team of over fifty people who are all front line working with people with huge issues, and guess what?? I do my own photocopying. And filing. Because I want to use the budget we have directly on the service users!

Didn’t you say ages ago you were leaving the thread. Nothing worse than when someone announces their departure and the plane doesn’t leave.

noblegiraffe · 04/04/2023 23:42

I'm just thinking about how in teaching people go for promoted posts to do 'strategy' and to get a break from the hard work of actually teaching.

Janedoe82 · 04/04/2023 23:42

I am not remotely being a snob!
I am saying that within any organisation you have to find a way to benchmark salaries. There is a reason why the average Head Teachers role is 75k and not 40k. Because they have more responsibility for things such as strategy/ writing business plans/ HR/ Budgeting and are therefore compensated as such.
if your role is purely operational it doesn’t command the same salary and I am genuinely struggling to see what the issue is with an averages teachers salary of 40k.

Sherrystrull · 04/04/2023 23:44

Janedoe82 · 04/04/2023 23:42

I am not remotely being a snob!
I am saying that within any organisation you have to find a way to benchmark salaries. There is a reason why the average Head Teachers role is 75k and not 40k. Because they have more responsibility for things such as strategy/ writing business plans/ HR/ Budgeting and are therefore compensated as such.
if your role is purely operational it doesn’t command the same salary and I am genuinely struggling to see what the issue is with an averages teachers salary of 40k.

Nice.

Tell us what your job is so we can pick it apart and tell you you don't deserve a pay rise because it's so easy (while having no actual clue what the job entails).

Janedoe82 · 04/04/2023 23:45

I haven’t at any point said it is easy. I am saying that you have to be realistic.

noblegiraffe · 04/04/2023 23:45

Are you trying to make out that teachers are saying they should be paid the same as headteachers?

I'm sure since you're so clever that you understand market forces and how salaries are set so that you can actually hire the staff you need.

Sherrystrull · 04/04/2023 23:46

Janedoe82 · 04/04/2023 23:45

I haven’t at any point said it is easy. I am saying that you have to be realistic.

Realistic about what?

Janedoe82 · 04/04/2023 23:46

Most people feel they are underpaid for what they do. That is life

noblegiraffe · 04/04/2023 23:46

Do you understand that if you can't get the people you need to do a job for the amount you're offering, what you're offering is too low?

Janedoe82 · 04/04/2023 23:46

About the pay demands and striking over them.

noblegiraffe · 04/04/2023 23:48

Come on, you claim to understand strategy.

If you can't hire the people you need for the salary you are offering, what should you do?

Janedoe82 · 04/04/2023 23:48

noblegiraffe I can’t get front line support workers as the pay is crap. But I can’t increase the salary as the budget simply isn’t there! This is the position we are in.

Sherrystrull · 04/04/2023 23:48

So basically you've judged teachers to not be deserving of a pay rise? Using what criteria? Just your opinion?

noblegiraffe · 04/04/2023 23:49

Janedoe82 · 04/04/2023 23:48

noblegiraffe I can’t get front line support workers as the pay is crap. But I can’t increase the salary as the budget simply isn’t there! This is the position we are in.

Ah, but you do understand that that salary can be increased by the government, yes?

And that they are choosing not to?

Janedoe82 · 04/04/2023 23:50

The only way I can pay front line staff more right now is to make redundancies and reduce services and redistribute the money for higher pay.
There isn’t a magic money tree. No one is going to sweep in and give more money to the social care system.

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