To think this could solve teachers' problems

[NovemberRains]

Teachers want higher pay.

Their employers currently pay a whopping ~24% into a defined benefit pension scheme!

AIBU to think that a lot of their problems could be solved if they were just given the option to either continue as they are, or get a 20% pay increase and have a 4% employer contribution to a standard defined contribution pension scheme like the vast majority of the population get!

I respect teachers, but based on my knowledge when overall remuneration is considered including pension and holidays, they really aren't underpaid compared to other professions!

It's a similar story for other public sector professions!

They are choosing not to as the money isn’t there unless they raise taxes which causes problems else where.

So you've gone from saying that teachers don't deserve more pay to the government cannot afford more pay.

And yet the government can find money when it wants to, like for propping up the energy companies. Odd, isn't it? It's like not funding education or social care are political choices rather than economic ones.

Why are you spouting Tory propaganda when apparently you work in social care and really should be taking on the government over the shit treatment of the sector?

Teachers were offered a 3% pay rise. Which they have rejected. Most other public sector services are currently facing cuts.

You don't even know the details of what you're spouting about.

noblegiraffe I am not sprouting Tory propaganda at all.
i am speaking from a position of being involved in setting budgets and know there is no more money! And right now my own priority is keeping as many people in work as possible. Not making pay demands which simply aren’t going to happen

i am speaking from a position of being involved in setting budgets and know there is no more money

You understand that the teachers are striking for more money for the budgets, yes? And that the pay offer that they just rejected was rejected because it was to be taken from current funding, not new money?

Yes. I am aware of that. No matter what budget it comes from there isn’t going to be any more 🙈

But there is more money. The government are choosing not to spend it on our children, schools and school staff.

The whole public sector is a mess- I am not disputing that at all. But pay rises are the least of the issues.

And staffing is a lot of the issues.

And guess how you can improve staffing?

Out of interest - why don't teachers work to rule instead of striking? Just refuse to do all the ridiculous reporting and non essential stuff - just teach children in the way you see fit?

Because the rule is that we do as many hours as necessary to discharge our professional duties. Which includes reporting and other stuff you consider non-essential.

If teachers in England worked to rule (which we have done in the past and no one noticed), it means refusing to run school trips and extra curricular activities, and that's about it.

@Janedoe82 what are the most important issues for each area of the public sector?

They aren’t spending it on health or policing either! Which is a pretty good indicator it isn’t as simple as wanting to deprive schools but that it simply isn’t there.
Yes- the energy companies got money. But a huge amount of pension fund money is tied up in that sector. Should pensions do badly that opens even more people to financial struggles which would have to be addressed.

Oh I see.

It's just people keep quoting that teachers are contracted to work 32 hours per week but in reality are working 65 hrs. (10 hours per day 6 days per week plus 5 hours on a Sunday? - I have 3 close friends who are teachers - they are all on the beach with me by 4.30pm and never work weekends.)

Well if you think it comes down to paying people more within the education sector and you have a pot of money now to do this- do you not think you should start with the lowest paid? The Early Years practitioners, classroom assistants, catering staff, cleaners, grounds staff? Those really feeling the strain of the cost of living. Rather than the average teacher on 40k?
how exactly should the budget for the department of education be distributed?
what about additional needs provision? Should the money go there first to set up provision for children who can’t attend main stream?

No, teachers don't have weekly contracted hours in England (they do in Scotland).

@Janedoe82 I object to the way you keep trying to insinuate that the rest of the public sector is against teachers. Maybe your team is, maybe loads of others are (I wouldn't know and neither would you), and that's fine. But it would be helpful if you'd stop presenting your personal dislike of teachers specifically and collectivism in general as representative of the rest of us.

In Wales we were offered a low payrise, which wasn't funded. It was rejected. We were told at the time that there was no more money.

Which of course there was, because magically they then stumped up a fully funded, better increase.

Governments can raise salaries. And can raise budgets too.
And politicians lie!

Well if you think it comes down to paying people more within the education sector and you have a pot of money now to do this- do you not think you should start with the lowest paid? The Early Years practitioners, classroom assistants, catering staff, cleaners, grounds staff? Those really feeling the strain of the cost of living. Rather than the average teacher on 40k?

We're not allowed to strike for them to get paid more, but all solidarity with them if they decide to do so.

In the meantime, kids don't have teachers because we can't recruit any, and the figures for next year are looking even worse than this year.

Very hard to get classroom assistants. Maybe the £10.42 is part of the problem.

All of these staff have to come out of the same education budget! If you direct even more of it to teachers there is even less for everything else.

All the striking is unlikely to be encouraging people to enter the profession.

Yes, it is.

I started a thread about that a while ago. https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/4651549-teaching-assistants-quitting-schools-for-supermarkets-because-of-joke-wages

Of course, when a teacher pay rise isn't funded by the government, it means redundancies, and teaching assistants have been made redundant in droves since the Tories came in in 2010. That's why the teachers striking are so adamant that any pay rise needs to be fully funded, so it doesn't mean even more cuts to support staff.