To think this could solve teachers' problems

[NovemberRains]

Teachers want higher pay.

Their employers currently pay a whopping ~24% into a defined benefit pension scheme!

AIBU to think that a lot of their problems could be solved if they were just given the option to either continue as they are, or get a 20% pay increase and have a 4% employer contribution to a standard defined contribution pension scheme like the vast majority of the population get!

I respect teachers, but based on my knowledge when overall remuneration is considered including pension and holidays, they really aren't underpaid compared to other professions!

It's a similar story for other public sector professions!

Teachers would support other job sector strikes, yes absolutely. The point is that other job sectors can not actually afford to strike because they don't earn what teachers do despite working just as hard.

What do you want teachers to do about it?

On the contrary, it's constantly said on threads like these that teachers are leaving in droves so are "running away". So clearly, don't have more conviction and commitment as you say?

Teachers can't do anything other than maybe just get it into their heads that others work just as hard but can't afford to stike/unions.

Why is this so difficult to get?

Eh?

What makes you think that I don't get it?

You keep repeating it like you're expecting something other than 'ok'.

I feel like I could go round in circles with this. Teachers would support other job sector strikes, yes absolutely. The point is that other job sectors can not actually afford to strike because they don't earn what teachers do despite working just as hard. Again going around in circles. I explained the reason/point in previous post, I don't think it was taken into account or maybe understood properly what I was saying and tbh I don't think it ever will. If teachers are happier in other professions than fab 👍
It was taken into account.

I just don't see why people are do intent on doing the following:

Teachers raise issues in their sector

Inevitable discussion that follows:

1. But the terms and conditions and pay and workload aren't that bad.
2. But other jobs have it worse. (Insert whataboutery here about any other jobs - usually includes some unionised jobs and non unionised jobs).
3. Teachers should do (insert jobs from 2 here) and see how they like it. Not all jobs are easy.
4. Teachers say "we know other jobs have their issues and if those workers in those lines of work wanted to raise issues, we would listen, and support them in advocating for decent terms. Right now we're talking about education."
5. Aha! But not all the other jobs in the whataboutery are unionised, and they can't afford to be in a union. Look everyone, this is why people run out of sympathy for teachers!

🙄

You don't appear to get that striking/unions is a privilege denied to many, especially those on low incomes who are working just as long and hard.

I see I rattled all of the cages of teachers who've literally done fa else except teach in a school.

I tell you what working elsewhere does teach. It teaches that actually teaching isn't as stressful as the vast majority of teachers all make out. Plenty of other jobs have that level of stress, if not more, on a daily basis.

When I'm talking about 'people' skills, I'm talking about grown women being 'scared' that someone is going to watch them teach. Why? Because they're 25 and literally have had their hands held since school and university all the way through teaching practice. They can't cope with parents coming in on the bounce - parents sometimes twice their age.

I'm talking about heads of department and head teachers who literally couldn't run a multi million pound company, yet are thrust into running a school - yes, a business. Where is their management experience? I've only met three amazing head teachers and guess what - all three came to teaching late in their 40's having been somewhere else during their 20's and 30's. All great teachers too I might add having done PGCE's as mature students with a desire to make a difference (rather than doing one because they literally couldn't think of what else to do - like half of the kids on my PGCE )

Actually my precious job did prepare me for the sad events you have to deal with in school - for me, dealing with social services/accidents/trauma etc. I had to deal with plenty of this in my previous roles. It absolutely prepared me whilst around me younger colleagues fresh into teaching had no fucking clue whatsoever what to do, how to react, how to deal with the situations.

It's ok - cages are still rattling I hear!!

If you're never done anything else except teaching, you literally have nothing to compare it to. That's a fact! One you might not all like, but a fact nevertheless. As for the poster who compared teaching to being a surgeon or being an architect - seriously, please.

You keep repeating that. You've said you don't actually expect anyone to do anything with that information.

What response is going to stop you repeating the same thing over and over claiming that people don't get it because apparently we aren't performing 'getting it' to your satisfaction?

A lot of teachers have been forced to reassess their careers in teaching and opted to change careers as they had no option. Strikes have only started happening in recent months because the remaining workforce don't want to have to take this direction. They are striking to try and avoid leaving. Of course this shows conviction but they will leave eventually if nothing changes. Then the job for any new teachers will be even harder because there will be fewer and fewer experienced staff around. It's a downward spiralling catastrophe unless things change soon and quickly.

I see I rattled all of the cages of teachers who've literally done fa else except teach in a school.

Who? I saw a bunch of people talking about the various jobs they did before teaching.

It's a natural way of society. Those doing just as much work for less are always going to have little sympathy for those doing the same as them work wise but get more, and they are privileged enough to strike to get even more. That's what people are trying to get through but I don't think it ever will unfortunately.

Oh, so you just want to post how you don't give a shit about teachers.

Right, glad we got there.

Have you been a teacher?

Oh and it's 'compared with'

It's a natural way of society. Those doing just as much work for less are always going to have little sympathy for those doing the same as them work wise but get more, and they are privileged enough to strike to get even more. That's what people are trying to get through but I don't think it ever will unfortunately.
And we got there.
It is a case of put up, shut up, other people have it worse.

Unions are the reason the very minimum protections and conditions are present for all workers.
I'd argue that those who aren't in unions or can't be stand to lose a lot if the unionised workforces stop fighting for decent terms and conditions.

Still if we get there I'm sure some people will say it could be worse because other people have ended up in a modern day workhouse. Always a rush to the bottom.

Having done many jobs before teaching - from minimum wage, various retail and hospitality roles with varying responsibilities, through to an apprenticeship, and then on to salaried roles in finance, via a short stint in the third sector - I can confirm teaching is far, far harder than the 7+ other jobs I did in my 15 years of work experience outside the classroom.

And none of them gave me any sort of tangible skills for the classroom; except maybe how to interact with people in various settings; but that comes easily to me anyway.

Your underlying contempt for younger people makes me understand why you no longer teach though. You seem like the sort that wants someone to be freshly qualified with 25 years experience.

Words put in my mouth I see. I've explained all I needed to so now it's just a circles game, much like it was with my ex fil.

@bellswithwhistles,

You know that teachers don't just jump into headship without any additional training, don't you? Most Heads have an NPQH qualification. Almost all with have served time deputising and managing departments before headship.

It's absolutely no different from anyone else moving up a profession into management.

My sister is a solicitor. She's had no management training. If she was made a partner, would you say she's just leapt into leadership with no idea how it all works? Or would that be ok?

If people are angry because they think that workers should be paid according to how hard they work, rather than according to how in demand/well qualified they are, may I suggest that there are far better groups of people to aim that anger at than teachers?

Nellodee
You'd certainly think so, but I'd suspect a lot of it isn't coming from a place of genuinely caring about workers' rights and conditions.
It's just an easy way to try to undermine and derail discussions about the problems in education with whataboutery.

When it comes to education and teacher strikes, as long as some people have it worse, nobody else should expect any sympathy for trying to protect their terms and conditions. It's not a race to the bottom of course.

I’m sure you’re right, Lola smiles. On the one hand, we’ve got people not believing teachers are worth the money they currently earn (since they’re okay with us getting a real terms pay cut every single year). This sounds quite conservative.
On the other, we’ve got the same people arguing that you should never be allowed to campaign for any kind of pay rise unless you work harder than every worker in minimum wage, which sounds pretty close to communism.
I don’t genuinely think there are any real people who simultaneously hold both of those positions, having seriously thought about them.

And in the meantime there are kids who don't have teachers.

Yes, in the meantime we have kids with no teachers. And vulnerable people who can’t get carers. And patients dying waiting to be seen by all the doctors and nurses we don’t have.

Workers everywhere are being undervalued, particularly those who offer services to the poor. The issue is, those in charge do not suffer if schools are poor, or hospitals are inundated, or social care has huge holes in the safety net. They have their own safety net: money. The only way we change things is by knowing things do not have to be like this and then voting to make that happen.
There is no shortage of money, it just needs to be distributed better, and actually I’ve got a lot of sympathy with the position that how much you earn should be in some way reflective of his hard you work.

In that case, they're simply rude. Or busy.

My cafe isn't rattled, @bellswithwhistles , in spite of having done nothing but teach. I just think you're talking nonsense.