To think this could solve teachers' problems

[NovemberRains]

Teachers want higher pay.

Their employers currently pay a whopping ~24% into a defined benefit pension scheme!

AIBU to think that a lot of their problems could be solved if they were just given the option to either continue as they are, or get a 20% pay increase and have a 4% employer contribution to a standard defined contribution pension scheme like the vast majority of the population get!

I respect teachers, but based on my knowledge when overall remuneration is considered including pension and holidays, they really aren't underpaid compared to other professions!

It's a similar story for other public sector professions!

@MrsHamlet , I offered literacy help across KS3/4, and specific assistance with UCAS applications for KS5. To the closest school.

Teachers get 24% employer contribution??!! The fuck!!?

I offered literacy help across KS3/4, and specific assistance with UCAS applications for KS5. To the closest school

forgive me but what actual experience of delivering literacy programmes/activities and interventions to KS3 and KS4 students do you have? What level of commitment did you offer the school? What is your experience of assisting with UCAS applications and why do you think schools need this help? In short, why do you think you are the person to provide this support to students?

It's the inducement to keep things rolling. If the pay is poor, then the reward is index-linked.

It's a different type of pension, isn't directly comparable and all employer contributions are a theoretical spreadsheet exercise: no money at all is actually put into a pot for current teachers (not even their own contributions). This has been explained in detail during the first few pages of this thread.

A secondary PGCE, a first degree, 30 years of work experience employed and freelance, and a willingness to work for free. How much jam do you want? I also would not have been willing to move.

But the irony is that workers such as those in retail can't afford to join unions because they are on rubbish pay, which is minimum wage in most circumstances. Yet they are the workers who could use a union for better pay! Being in a union is out of reach financially for a lot of workers, so to be in one is a privilege in itself.

@EffortlessDesmond all of which sounds good, and had your emails found their way to me, I would have replied.
But unless you specifically contacted the head of sixth form and the literacy lead, I'm afraid they'd be likely to be ignored. Our generic email gets endless spammy messages. I'm actually a named contact (with my email!) for teacher training requests on our website, and I still get messages through generic.... often ages after they've arrived because the office are run off their feet.
It's not arrogance, honestly. At least in the case of my school.

Yeah, check your union privilege, people.

Jeez. The elite are presumably quite happy to have the plebs scrabble over who has it worst.

Being able to afford a union is a privilege denied to a lot of workers because they cannot afford it.

@MrsHamlet , I did have the right name for the head of sixthform, because my DS only left the year before.

Not to mention that most teachers are in a union because they HAVE to be - because working 1:1 with vulnerable children also puts teachers in a vulnerable position; and they need the legal protection should an allegation be made.

As an inexperienced teacher, I had to contact my Union for advice on matters of this nature. Fortunately nothing came of it; but it was really scary at the time (and just to clarify; there was no allegation made and no grounds for an allegation)

Teachers are primarily in unions for the legal protection; not for pay disputes. I’d imagine the same is true for other comparable employers.

My mum and dad have done lower paid jobs their whole lives and have always been in a union for legal reasons. It’s not something for the “elite”.

Therefore we should support, encourage and promote union actions wherever possible in order to recognise how fortunate we are to be able to unionise. We should make use of our collective bargaining power to push for better conditions for all members and serve as an example for other industries that we, hopefully, might be able to inspire change there too.

Rather than a ridiculous race to the bottom where we don't take union action, or demand better, because some sectors can't unionise.

@Changechangechanging . I submitted a CV, which clearly showed that I had worked for 25 years as a copywriter. So yes, I was probably just qualified to teach literacy skills withe the PGCE tick.

Did you think about maybe making a phone call? Applying through the proper channels?

Recruitment in schools is not done like this at all. There is a set process, which includes going through the local authority, and police checks etc. - it obviously varies depending where you are in the country; but you absolutely could not just turn up at a school to do things like that without doing the “proper” process. Mainly because as a teacher, I already have responsibility for UCAS applications for a caseload of pupils; it’s part of my CPD to do this. I have way more experience than you in this field.

But by all means; apply to help do photocopying/wall displays and stuff.

Unfortunately those who could really use a union the most won't have too much sympathy because the pay, even for the work they do extra, is far more than what a lot of jobs could imagine, especially in retail. Plus most are on 52 week contracts and get 28 days annual leave and your very lucky if bank holidays are on top of those days as a lot are 28 day to include bank holidays.

A secondary PGCE, a first degree, 30 years of work experience employed and freelance, and a willingness to work for free. How much jam do you want?

School experience was how recent? When did you last submit a UCAS statement?

I genuinely don't mean to be obtuse - I have had volunteers worth their weight in gold and with the right background they are invaluable. But I also know there are lots of people out there who think knowing a subject is enough - if you'd ever had to deal with the aftermath of a tutor with no school experience selling themselves as experts to parents with struggling children needing to improve grades you would understand. At best they are helpful - read the right spec, look at exam papers and mark schemes and provide valuable insight. The majority, however, have been nowhere near an exam board website, give poor advice (like 'answer in full sentences' when a word is enough) or give wrong advice which could reduce rather than enhance grades.

Again, you're arguing for a race to the bottom approach. The fact that wages in professional roles are higher than in other jobs doesn't mean that those in the roles can't expect improvements to be made.

Yes the pay levels are different but so are the entry requirements, workloads and levels of responsibility.

But the irony is that workers such as those in retail can't afford to join unions because they are on rubbish pay, which is minimum wage in most circumstances. Yet they are the workers who could use a union for better pay! Being in a union is out of reach financially for a lot of workers, so to be in one is a privilege in itself
Heard it all now.

Teachers should do other things to realise it's not all rosy (still not sure what point that poster was trying to make)

But if you point out teachers already know jobs have their challenges and you'd be entirely supportive of ALL workers being unionised and able to have decent terms and conditions and that's also unreasonable.

The Tories have really done a number on the UK when people. What a rush to the bottom.

Welcome to 2023, where workers who fight for their terms and conditions AND would support all workers having decent terms need to suck up attacks on their pay and conditions because some people have it worse. 🤦‍♀️

Yeah, those on minimum wage just need to stop complaining - I mean, at least they have a job!

(hyperbole)

🤔

The point is, people know teachers would be supportive of other professions/job sectors if they had unions and strikes, etc. But the other point is that lots of other job sectors are too poor to have/join a union in the first place!

It's like trying to explain to may ex father in law that yes, they worked so hard back in the day to buy a house and their hard work paid off in the end meaning they could afford home ownership. Then, in the same breath, trying to explain the reason people can't buy houses now is because they work just as hard, but the pay isn't high enough to actually buy a house nowadays. This then leads to ex fil trying to "come up with solutions" so this generation can afford to buy a home.

So both generations worked just as hard (i.e., teachers work as hard as other jobs), but the pay difference means one can afford a union and the other can't. How is this so hard to understand without being classed as a race to the bottom. People saying "but they should just try and join/set up a union" with the magic money they don't earn is the equivalent of my ex fil saying "well they should just give up avocados on toast then they could afford a house" nonsense. When you're too poor, you're too poor. That's why people lose sympathy for teachers.

CandleInTheStorm
But many people doing the "teachers should do something else and see how they like it" DON'T accept that teachers would support good working conditions in other areas of employment.

It often IS a rush to the bottom.

It's someone else has it worse, so you should do it and then you'll shut up, roll over and stop trying to protect your terms and conditions.

I've seen it on other employment threads here where someone (not in teaching) is talking about an issue at work, and inevitably there's a dozen posters telling the OP that they should suck it up because some people have to time their loo breaks to the second and make time up at the end of the day.

What we see in a lot of the teacher threads is an exaggerated version of a weird hang up some people have that boils down to a childish "if I can't have it, nobody can have it".

If people lose sympathy for teachers because they've said they'd support all workers having decent terms and conditions (usually after someone's tried to be smart and said "maybe they should do something else and see how they like it/but what about other jobs?) then they need to wise up.

If someone is willing to overlook unsafe buildings, lack of SEN funding, a recruitment and retention crisis that affects their children because some teacher said that they'd support all workers to fight for decent conditions, then honestly no amount of explaining will help them.

do something to change your situation!

They are, they are striking you numpty.

Why should people be forced out of a profession they are passionate about just because those at the top changed the goalposts? Stand by your cause, stand with conviction and fight for what you believe in. That's what teachers are doing. Stop making out they are assholes just because they don't either roll over and take it or run away. They've clearly got more conviction and commitment than YOU. You just sell your ass to the highest bidder. Get some moral standards.

I feel like I could go round in circles with this. Teachers would support other job sector strikes, yes absolutely. The point is that other job sectors can not actually afford to strike because they don't earn what teachers do despite working just as hard. Again going around in circles. I explained the reason/point in previous post, I don't think it was taken into account or maybe understood properly what I was saying and tbh I don't think it ever will. If teachers are happier in other professions than fab 👍