Brother and SIL pushing us out of children's lives

[AnnoyedAuntie]

Sorry, this will likely be a long read! My brother and SIL have two DCs who are my parent's only grandchildren and mine and my DB's only nieces. Since the children were born my side of the family have felt very pushed out of their lives, in favour of SIL's family. They're a large, extremely close knit bunch (at each others houses 24/7 or on facetime constantly). At the baby shower for the first born, SIL's mother refused to engage in conversation with our family, and the rest followed suit. Considering her lot made up 90% of those in attendance due to the sheer size of their family, this made us very uncomfortable, like lepers sat in the corner. In hindsight this was a massive indication of how we were going to be treated moving forward.

Since that point we have had to fight for every second we've been allowed to spend with the children. We put in all the effort as they refuse to come to any of our houses as it's too much effort (they don't drive but we all live a short bus journey away and have offered lifts and purchased car seats to help with this. They've taken us up on this offer once). When we arrange to go to them they regularly cancel at the last minute, or generally make you feel unwelcome once you are there. SIL will suddenly have loads of jobs to do, or will sit in the corner on facetime to her family. When it comes to Christmas and birthdays we are never taken into account when planning family visits and are told "sorry, we're doing this and that with SILs family, so you'll have to drop in in the evening midweek", despite the fact that we all work and the children are in bed for six/seven o'clock.

She doesn't work and spends her weekdays at her family's house as they also don't work, so is literally with them from early morning until DB gets home from work. My parents are heartbroken and don't feel like grandparents. On top of this, DB will call them and ask to borrow money as when and they need it and they always give it to him, despite the fact that they don't really have it to lend out. He's absolutely shameless paying pitiful amounts back each month, whilst they both splash the cash they do have on crap they don't need. I don't believe this is a factor in them not wanting to see us, as DB has been like this since he was a teen and doesn't see anything wrong with treating people like that.

I've raised this problem with him in the past, in as polite away as I possibly can, asking him to include our DPs more and try and make seeing them a regular thing. Even if it's just to invite them up for a couple of hours once a fortnight. SIL had an extreme reaction to this and decided I was banned from seeing the children at all. She calmed down following this but my DPs are now scared to say anything that could be taken negatively in case their very limited contact with the children is taken away all together (on average they currently see the children for a couple of hours, at DB's house, around every 3 months).

It feels like a lost cause and I'm at a point where I feel like I just can't be bothered anymore. I'm sick of getting upset about it and seeing my parents so upset about it too. If I say something I risk her flipping her lid and stopping any of us from seeing the children at all. I have one of my niece's birthday presents sat here days after the event because, according to them, they've been too busy with SIL's family for me to even drop in for ten minutes to give this to her. Ahead of one of their birthdays last year my DPs suggested throwing a small party at their house, on whatever day at the weekend works best for DB and SIL, to allow our family to see the children and give gifts etc, but this was refused as they wanted to see SIL's family both days.

Would IBU to just cut contact, keep a distance and post presents to them in future (despite the fact they live a 10 minute drive from us)? Or should I bite the bullet and raise this again for the sake of my parents (and risk SIL losing her shit again and banning contact all together?) I just feel like I can't win!

If you've made it this far, thank you for reading!

It sounds like your selfish brother has found a selfish wife. Makes sense really.

I would just stop bothering. From experience, people don't change.

I just came from a thread where someone called another poster "utterly ghastly." I think we've been invaded by time travellers.

From SIL pov she probably thinks you're the rude one, closed off people usually take massive offence to new people trying to build a relationship with them. You would have had to bend over backwards to make conversation with her and she would likely still detest you.

Forget her, your relationship is with DB.
DB has made his bed.He is an adult.DP should stop giving money as that's just showing DB that his behaviour is being rewarded.

Your brother sounds like a selfish user and your SIL the same. They aren't interested in relationships and for self protection you might need to just accept that.

In terms of my feelings, it's definitely a bit of both. I'm missing the relationship that I feel I should have/would like to have with the children, and I can't help but feel angry and defensive of my parents when I see how upset they are. Prior to the children being born I like to think I had a good relationship with SIL, she was pleasant enough and seemed to make an effort with DB to have a relationship with our family. I don't think I'm resentful that DB still gets their love and support, as I would never expect them to withdraw this based on his behaviour. He's always used people to his advantage as when he needs them and has been quite selfish, so his behaviour now comes as no surprise, but he's still their son. I'm lucky enough that I've never needed their support financially as myself and DP have worked hard to establish a comfortable life for ourselves and (touch wood) have never had money problems.

I don't have any children, but do like to think that we would ensure all family members on both sides have contact with them if we did. Myself and DP have good relationships with our families (minus the current situation with my DB) and each others families and see both on a regular basis.

I do like the suggestion of the "fairy godmother" type role. It puts a nice spin on the current "faceless entity who we get presents from twice a year" feeling I have!

This is someone obviously trolling - why on earth are people responding? Come on!

OP, I would continue to offer kindness and understanding to your parents in their disappointment but, for the sake of your own peace of mind, just stop with the efforts you are making. I can't quite get a handle on how you feel about your brother - the only thing you've said about him is a very big negative - so are you making all this effort because you feel you "should", or is there an element of making a point in it all?

It's especially sad for your parents. But you are not your parents and you don't need to should all their sadness as well as your own.

Send a final message to your brother - maybe a letter or card - explaining exactly why you are withdrawing and urging him to not let his children's childhoods pass by without having a proper relationship with their paternal grandparents. That is, of course, if you're absolutely sure your brother doesn't have good cause to have no meaningful relationship with them.

I would drop it and not post any gifts either.

Your DP's relationship with your DB is theirs to manage, so I would stay away. As painful as it is for you to watch, it's their decision to keep giving him the money.

I think this is more on your DB than SIL, it sounds like he has no interest in your family other than using you for money.

This sounds pretty awful. Why can't you just ring your MIL?

Because it's her DH's bloody mother and it's HIS job to communicate with his family about their joint children. Children and planning and soft skills like keeping in touch are not bloody 'women's work'.

Why would OP call MIL when they barely speak to her?

They can’t be shocked that their lack of parenting brought them to this.

I certainly wouldn't say there has been a lack of parenting on my parents side. Myself and my other DB are hardworking and (I like to think) kind people. My parents were always quite strict and we always knew what was expected of us. His behaviour didn't go unnoticed or unpunished growing up, it just seems that none of what we were taught actually sunk in with him.

Have you asked him or her?
hey db and sil we’d love to see you more, but feels like we may have done something to offend / upset you
im sorry if I have, can we talk about it because I’d love to have a closer relationship with you

We grew up working class, with DPs as hardworking, supportive role models. I've got the life I have now as a result of watching them work to provide for us. SIL comes from a similar background/circumstances.

I know it really hurts, DH and I went through something similar where his sister deliberately started ostracizing us from the family once she had kids. It was so hurtful as we really looked forward to being an aunt and uncle but in the end we walked away because what else could we do. Save yourself the stress and hurt of it all.

This is very much along the lines of how I approached it last time, which resulted in her attempting to ban me from seeing the children. I was told that we hadn't done anything to offend or upset anyone and then when I suggested he makes a bit more effort with our DPs (maybe letting them visit once a fortnight) as they felt pushed out the message was passed onto her and she lost it. This is why I'm worried about raising the subject again.

This is exactly how it feels for us! Has anything improved since you walked away? Did they make any effort to encourage contact once you stopped making the effort or is their no relationship at all now? I'm just curious as to whether this could help in our situation.

This situation has arisen because your brother is lazy and a user. He'd be like this regardless of who he married and I wouldn't blame you if you just let the situation go. There are no words that will make him change or see the light.

Your parents choose to be used for money and there's nothing that you can do about that either. They need to come to the realization about their son which may not even happen.

Their only chance of a relationship with the grandchildren is if the couple split up and your brother decides to use your parents as childcare. He'd have to go to court to get some parenting time but it sounds like he would be the type to outsource his time with the kids.

Ok - so this is what I would do. Stop contacting and wait for them to initiate contact. In mean time - open up a savings account and put money in it as and when. Wait until the kids are 16 and write a letter addressed to them and give them the money as a gift. You’ve tried and this is not your fault. Hopefully they will still let you see them as they grow but if not you are still doing something for them.

@TomatoFrog bore off with your armchair judgements of OP’s parents. Some people are just bad eggs and no amount of parenting will sort them out. I’ve seen it with a few people I know, excellent parents with good morals etc, one of their kids just goes rogue. Adults are responsible for their own actions and you can’t blame all adults’ faults on their parents!

We had similar happen too. In the end we stopped posting birthday, easter and Xmas presents. We just messaged saying x presents and cards are at grandmas. This kind of forced them to visit, to collect them.

So does SIL and her family not work because her parents made loads of money? Why does your DB need to go begging to your parents? Can’t he ask his wife’s family for money?

I feel very sorry for you and your parents. SIL sounds awful.

We are in a similar situation OP, and there really is nothing you can do about it. DH has one brother and he has married a woman who spends all her time with her family - we don't get a look in. He does whatever she wants. We have no relationship at all with our nieces but if the parents will not support a relationship when children are young, there really isn't anything you can do. We used to send gifts and cars and we didn't even get a thank you. We gave up in the end. There has been no fighting, no rancour, SIL just has no interest in anyone outside her own family.