To expect more from grandparents?

[Villagemama]

We moved back from several years’ abroad when my DD was 8m old to be closer to family and settled in a small village, knowing nobody, for my husband’s work.

We have no family on my husband’s side and my parents live a short domestic flight + commuter train away (4-5hr door-to-door).

We now have 2 kids, 2 and 4, and my parents haven’t come to visit since the birth of the younger (I’ve made the trip half a dozen times since then with the kids). My siblings are younger, don’t have kids and live abroad.

I’ve struggled with isolation as a SAHM and while we now have plenty of waving-type acquaintances in the village, still only one or two whose houses we would visit. It doesn’t help that my husband commutes so doesn’t make local connections. I also think it’s the age and stage of the children.

My mother recently described herself as an involved grandparent which nearly blew my mind! As I said it’s become apparent they don’t travel, and when I travel to theirs, while my mother is very kind to the kids, happy to read stories and make lunch etc, she would never suggest I took a break while she looked after the kids - even a solo supermarket trip.

On our last trip I asked if she and my father would look after the kids for an hour while my husband and I went to the pub around the corner, to which her response was “So you expect me to be trapped inside with the children while you’re out drinking??” So as it stands they’ve not once looked after the children, even while asleep.

I should add that I always considered myself to have a good relationship with my mother so I find her behaviour hurtful. I now see that she probably had a tough time too with small kids - and an unaware husband - so I think on some level she’s taking it out on me.

Long story short, I feel a sense of grief over the situation and also like there’s no obvious place for us to be. My desire to return to my hometown at some point has shifted due to my parents’ behaviour. We could return to the other side of the world I suppose where we had some connections. Or equally stay in our small town and try and build connections over time.

As it is I am feeling the lack of village! It’s been just my husband and me for a long time it feels. No one who’d step in if we were sick, who’d offer to look after the kids if we wanted to get a task done or offer a place to visit on a wet day inside with the kids.

AIBU to expect more from the grandparents??

Its hard op. Mine never helped. You be told on here oh they your kids lol. But of course the help be nice!! But sometimes family can get over involved too so pros and cons to it.

Unless they are very elderly, which you've said they are not, it's pretty shit that they haven't visited you once.

I disagree - if you move away from the family home the onus is on you to be the one to visit. I moved abroad to Spain after Uni, the only time my parents specifically visited me in the 10 years I lived abroad was for my wedding! All other visits were me going home to see my parents and other family members.

I lived in Madrid and my parents came to Spain a few times when I was living there but it was on holiday to different places, if we could work it out then we met up with them a couple of times for a few days but I'd never have expected them to come to Madrid just because I was there eg they went to Benidorm for 10 days, DD and I got the train after work/school on Friday, stayed in their holiday villa with them Friday and Saturday nights and then came home on Sunday afternoon ready for work/school Monday but I'd never have expected them to make the reverse trip to Madrid for the weekend in the middle of their holiday.

In the OPs case they moved back to he same country but are still 4+hrs away via plane and train from her parents so it's not like they're round the corner and choosing not to visit or an easy hours drive away, there's a lot of logistics to a trip and why should they have to bear the time and expense of the OPs decision to live where they do? Unless they're pressuring her to visit then they aren't expecting her to visit either so any trips are made on the OPs terms and when she chooses.

And it's not like they don't know your kids at all. They've presumably had extended visits with them, spent time with them, got to know them, seen how you care for them. It really wouldn't be that hard for them to mind them for an hour or two while you're staying so you can have some child-free time.

It's totally different looking after a child when the parents are there as to when they aren't. I babysit my nieces and nephews all the time but I and they act differently when their parents are there to when they aren't and if they don't see the children regularly then they may be worried about being left in sole charge ... I've had times where I've babysat my niece, that I see practically daily so I'm no stranger, she's been asleep when I arrived but when she woke up she had been inconsolable because she wanted her mum but there was only me there. I imagine in the OPs case where the children see her family a lot less frequently then this might be a real concern of her parents.

But it goes two ways. They're not entitled to expect you regularly to schlep two tiny children to their house on a flight plus train and then, having done the whole stressful [pack-up and journey, have no break.

Who says they are expecting this? I don't think I've seen the OP say that her parents expect or insist they visit, so this is irrelevant. When I lived abroad and was visiting home I'd tell my parents we were planning to visit so we could coordinate dates they would definitely be available but if we had set dates that my parents couldn't accommodate then we'd still travel regardless and they would have just missed out. The travel was always my choice not theirs except for when we were travelling for specific family events, so no obligation.

With the distance I think they sound as involved as they can be. They sound like they enjoy seeing the children but aren’t comfortable in sole charge perhaps as they don’t see them a lot.
If you want a break used paid childcare - I’m sure there’s a teen in your village who babysits. Or ask one if nursery staff if they do.

factnotopinion

This is a very thoughtful post with which I agree.

I disagree - if you move away from the family home the onus is on you to be the one to visit. I moved abroad to Spain after Uni, the only time my parents specifically visited me in the 10 years I lived abroad was for my wedding! All other visits were me going home to see my parents and other family members.

Well, personally I think that's a bit shit. You may disagree, but that's my opinion. Perhaps the one who moved away should visit more often (although arguably this changes when it's no longer a single adult but you have to drag little people along) but imo that doesn't mean the one who stayed should never visit the one who moved. Unless they're really not bothered about seeing them at all or somehow they've managed to superglue their trousers to the sofa!

It all depends how much they want the relationship. In the case of the OP's parents, the OP could logically conclude, "not that much". And find it grating that they have the nerve to describe themselves as 'involved grandparents' when they've never cared for their grandkids on their own for an hour.

And find it grating that they have the nerve to describe themselves as 'involved grandparents' when they've never cared for their grandkids on their own for an hour

Being an involved grandparent doesn't necessarily mean grandparents have to care for them alone. Grandparents can join in family activities and be very "involved" with their grandchildren without taking on the responsibility alone

I moved abroad to Spain after Uni, the only time my parents specifically visited me in the 10 years I lived abroad was for my wedding!

I think that's really sad to be honest. DH's brothers live on two different continents and his parents visit them at least once a year. When we lived overseas they came to visit us. I can't imagine not visiting my kids semi regularly if they move abroad when they grow up and I certainly wouldn't want the onus to be on them to come and see me and DH, especially if they had small DC.

Oh come on. OP asked to go to the pub round the corner for 1 hour! That is hardly running away. 🤦🏽‍♀️

I think you live too far away for them to be involved. Flight and train is expensive and sounds like headache. To be honest, I wouldn't expect much even if they lived an hour away. I know, because my parents are like this- they rarely make any effort. You either accept it and live your life, don't expect them babysitting, move closer to them or move wherever you want and don't look back.

I get you OP. My Mum desperately wanted to be more involved in my nephews lives when they were small but felt left out by my brothers DW.

When I finally had my DD I told her she had an open invitation and even has a permanent spot in our spare room if she wanted it but now she refuses to leave her cats. It's weird and I don't really get it.

I 100% agree with PP dating no one's entitled to help but I do find it a bit sad and weird.

Exactly how the vast majority of people that I know ,would think !

I'm an 'involved' GP. The fact that the involvement I want to offer matches the support my DC/DiLs need wasnt a happy coincidence on the birth of my GC; it was discussed and agreed in advance and formed a significant part of their decisions as to when to have children, where to live, how many children to have, and how much each of them could give to their careers.
So much resentment and disappointed could be avoided if people just shared their hopes with their parents, and parents in return were clear about their offer beforehand, rather than presenting GPs with a fait accompli and then getting upset if they don't play the role you have in mind for them.
You can still have this conversation OP.
Tell your mum what you've said here, about your isolation and lack of support.
Tell her you're considering moving to address this.
Tell her one option would be to move close to her.
Ask her if she would be willing and able to help you if you did, and what would that look like.
Tell her there is no pressure on her, that your DC are your choice and responsibility, but you thought it worth having the conversation.

You moved to be close to them.. a domestic flight and a train journey.

Am I missing something?

It's not really sad when I saw them at least twice a year (Summer hols and Christmas) as I travelled back to England to visit them and then often saw them at other times/places just not them coming specifically to Madrid to visit our home.

I am one of four siblings and when I was working abroad I was working in a school so limited to school holidays ... If my parents wanted to visit then it had to be in the school holidays as otherwise they'd have had to entertain themselves 8.30am-8pm as DD and I both had full school days and extra curricular commitments (School was 9 - 5, extra curricular activities were 5.30-7.30) so we'd leave at 8.30am and be home by 8 for dinner, DDs homework then bath and bed ... Not much time for actually spending time with GPs or getting to show them around.

When it actually came to the school holidays it often wasn't practical as not only was it more expensive to visit but they were usually helping my siblings with their holiday childcare; DD and I were on a holiday of our own or we were already coming back to visit home so they didn't need to travel to us.

Like I said we also went on holiday with them a few times, so while they didn't come to Madrid to visit us they came to Spain on a 10 day/2 week holiday and they'd always invite us to join them. As it was usually term time DD and I would often go to see them for a weekend (or if they were saying "We're thinking of going to Benidorm in June" I'd let them know if there were any local holidays that would give DD and I a long weekend and they'd book their holiday to cover that period so we could join them for longer) as part of their holiday so we got a mini break and my parents got to see DD without having to interrupt their holiday to detour to us for a weekend.

It worked for us 🤷🏼‍♀️

Agree very different schools of thought -while I can understand objectively nobody should EXPECT grandparents to do anything, in the real world the norm is that most very much WANT to - and if they don't, fair enough, but you can't then describe yourself as a hands on/involved grandparent if you have never made the effort to visit them or have looked after them alone for even an hour!

Op can't really make any suggestions as to what you should do other than just whatever is best for you and your family, absolving yourself of any guilt or need to take your dparents views into account. I think they've made it pretty obvious they are not going to be of any practical help in terms of looking after your children in the future and unless you are prepared to facilitate it are unlikely to develop any closer of a relationship with them living at the current distance than they would if you were abroad.

I'm on the same page here. We sold up and moved up north as I wasn't really building a relationship with my grandchildren, so being involved is really important to me as we gave up a great life down south. I love the fact that I've built a bond with the kids independent of my DD and SIL, so they have their own rooms at my house and I can be on hand to help out whenever it's needed. I get as much out of it as they do, so while I really miss our old friends, it's been completely worth it.

Exactly the same here

We live abroad and it's the same when my parents come

It's as if they just don't really want to be that involved. Happy to see the kids for an hour etc but then it's all just hard work

They just expect to sit down and have me and DH wait on them hand and foot

Do you think that they might resent the fact that you moved away and are being deliberately detached because they feel hurt?

I sympathise, OP. It is really hard. Nevertheless they have shown you who they are and they will not change. You need to throw your energies into building a ‘found family’ of people who will become this network for you. We are very lucky to have family who are supportive but they are not local, and we have built some really strong friendships with local friends who help us out, and we reciprocate. You have to be prepared to invest in the friendships but it can be done.

Well said. If they wanted to, they would.

I agree with the posters that say your parents would be unlikely to be doing any childcare if you’d moved closer to them. But as someone who has moved a lot since leaving home, I do think you’ve brought your isolation on yourselves, though unintentionally. And I think this is something we don’t talk about much, especially the impact it has on women who tend to be the childcare default. As you say in your OP it’s not simply that your parents aren’t as hands on as you would have hoped - you don’t have a village.

I did not realise, until I had kids, the importance of long term residence in developing relationships that see us through the points in our lives when we need care and help of some sort, not just friends for fun. As young adults we’re at the point when we could be providing that help to others, when we move around we don’t provide that sort of help. We are, in a sense, pretty selfish. We go off and have fun and adventures and everyone else goes on without us. We don’t generally get to know the people in the communities we move to who need someone to shop for them, we don’t get to know the young mum who needs a babysitter well enough for her to trust us. If we’re community minded we might volunteer for beach cleanups or food banks or something and think of ourselves as community minded, but we are unlikely to get to know a diverse and representative range of people in the places we live for just one stage of life. So we won’t have people we have strong bonds with when we move into the next.

There isn’t really a good solution to this if you only realise once you’ve had kids. If you’re lucky, you can move back near to family and they will be capable and willing to help even though you’ve not been around to help them or build those relationships at one of the points in life at which you had the most capacity to be helpful. But as you’ve experienced, that isn’t a given.

So if you do what you (and I) have done, you either need to put a lot of effort into trying to build those relationships fast (the success of which is dependent on a lot of factors beyond your control), you buy in the help you might otherwise have been able to get offered on the basis of your acceptance in a community, or you do without.

To be fair, though, there are plenty of women who stay near family and find themselves constantly at the beck and call of others and still they don’t get help when they need it. So moving away might not have maximized your chances of having the support you want at this stage of your life, but it doesn’t mean you are necessarily worse off than if you hadn’t gone off. If you’d stayed, you would still have had to put the work in to build the network.

Good community is a huge part of having inexpensive, good lives. If you’re going to leave your community just when you get to the point you can be a positive contributor, it’s hardly surprising there’s not much community for you when you suddenly decide to do something you need support for and move someplace new.

YANBU . It's so hard to do it without any family support and I will be there for my DC and DGC, if I am lucky enough to get any, in whatever way I can to support them when the time comes. I can't fathom the disconnection and selfishness of parents who wouldn't want to do this.

YANBU but you're not the only one. My husband's parents live maybe 2 hours away, 3 at most by train or car and they've not been since 2019. The kids can't remember them ever having visited! My mum is a bit better but stops short at genuinely helpful and is now so wrapped up in my brother's drama that she doesn't pay any of us much notice and the spare room is now my brother's. It feels awful to not feel like you have that place to go in your home town. All I can say is therapy helps. A lot. Bonus is no grandparents judging and appearing every few minutes but it is hard work.

When you moved abroad for several years, didn’t you think that it would have an impact on the relationship between your family and your parents? You did what was best for your family and expected your parents to be okay with not seeing much of any grandchildren that might be born far away, so I guess they put aside their hurt and just got on with their life. Now you have moved closer but it’s not really close is it and you are now upset that your parents won’t drop everything to travel for hours to see you. It’s a natural consequence of moving away and if one of your plans is to perhaps move far away again unless they shape up and look after your kids maybe they are scared to get involved. Also you don’t sound sad that your children don’t have a close bond with their grandparents more that you are sad you don’t have anyone to babysit for you. I’m fortunate to have my grandchildren living very close and see them and babysit frequently but I know if their parents decided it would be best for their family to move abroad it would fundamentally change the relationship I have with my grandchildren.

@Pencilsaremylife i haven’t been through this yet myself, but don’t we raise our children to go out into the world and do what’s best for themselves? Why would we be hurt if they do this?

I’m fully expecting my two to move away and I’ll be visiting as often as I’m able/welcome.