To expect more from grandparents?

[Villagemama]

We moved back from several years’ abroad when my DD was 8m old to be closer to family and settled in a small village, knowing nobody, for my husband’s work.

We have no family on my husband’s side and my parents live a short domestic flight + commuter train away (4-5hr door-to-door).

We now have 2 kids, 2 and 4, and my parents haven’t come to visit since the birth of the younger (I’ve made the trip half a dozen times since then with the kids). My siblings are younger, don’t have kids and live abroad.

I’ve struggled with isolation as a SAHM and while we now have plenty of waving-type acquaintances in the village, still only one or two whose houses we would visit. It doesn’t help that my husband commutes so doesn’t make local connections. I also think it’s the age and stage of the children.

My mother recently described herself as an involved grandparent which nearly blew my mind! As I said it’s become apparent they don’t travel, and when I travel to theirs, while my mother is very kind to the kids, happy to read stories and make lunch etc, she would never suggest I took a break while she looked after the kids - even a solo supermarket trip.

On our last trip I asked if she and my father would look after the kids for an hour while my husband and I went to the pub around the corner, to which her response was “So you expect me to be trapped inside with the children while you’re out drinking??” So as it stands they’ve not once looked after the children, even while asleep.

I should add that I always considered myself to have a good relationship with my mother so I find her behaviour hurtful. I now see that she probably had a tough time too with small kids - and an unaware husband - so I think on some level she’s taking it out on me.

Long story short, I feel a sense of grief over the situation and also like there’s no obvious place for us to be. My desire to return to my hometown at some point has shifted due to my parents’ behaviour. We could return to the other side of the world I suppose where we had some connections. Or equally stay in our small town and try and build connections over time.

As it is I am feeling the lack of village! It’s been just my husband and me for a long time it feels. No one who’d step in if we were sick, who’d offer to look after the kids if we wanted to get a task done or offer a place to visit on a wet day inside with the kids.

AIBU to expect more from the grandparents??

BTW I live much further from my family and it’s just me and DH, it’s hard, I completely get it. I signed up to loads of clubs and then when nursery started a group whatsapp for playdates. I wouldn’t expect anyone from my family to babysit DD tbh because they don’t really know her and she’s extremely active, I think my in-lwas would find it really hard even though they would never say no. I’d rather they enjoy spending time with her than just being relived when she leaves.

I don’t know what you expect when they live 5 hours away? 🤷🏻‍♀️ They turn up, are nice to the kids and but you want to sod off to the pub? From their perspective you’re always running away. Perhaps they’d appreciate a nice relationship with you before looking after your kids?

Yes my parents are healthy, capable, solvent and fit 60-somethings.

Don’t get too focused on the travel - it’s a function of the physical geography not distance per se. Imagine we lived on the outskirts of Glasgow and they lived on Skye, that would be the UK equivalent. And that’s also the reason my husband can’t work there!

I would love SOME visits and greater encouragement more generally. And it’s really not the babysitting, it’s just the initiative to offer me a little bit of break in some way when we do meet. I think her model of grandparenting is based on my own grandparents who were in their mid-80s and had us over for tea and biscuits.

I get it - lower my expectations and I can’t be disappointed 👍🏽 I guess I’m grieving the loss of what I thought it was going to be like but I need to accept the reality.

If you're patient, you will eventually build up a network where you live. School is helpful in that regard. You can hire babysitters till you find a nice one, too.

Our DC's got two sets of grandparents and two sets of auntie/uncles/cousins, and tbh we get way more support from several friends who genuinely like us and our DC and of course we help them out too. One of them isn't even local, but she's lovely and will even have DC for several nights this summer while we do a 20th wedding anniversary trip.

They now feel more like family than family! It has taken 10 years to get there though. To be fair to my parents, they are in their 80s and very set in their ways, and my mum was more hands on when DD was a baby. It took me a while to get over how uninterested my sister was (I've always made a big effort with her kids) but I got there.

There's a truism on here: when people show you who they are, believe them.

My parents could describe themselves as "involved". I'm about to defer DS start at nursery for a year because my Mum has asked if they can look after him when I return to work. They also looked after my eldest until he turned 2. Also because they actually wanted to.
So I'd take issue with a woman who makes sandwiches a few times a year describing herself as "involved", although it doesn't sound as if she's had much opportunity to be involved really. You are still a long way away and the kids must feel like beautiful little strangers.

I'd say also in our case my parents expended most of their grandparenting energy on the older grandchildren, and they're more similar in personality and interests too.

The narrative in our family has always been that I'm a coper and my sister needs help. So...er...I cope and my sister needs help...

I like that description above "beautiful strangers."

@Villagemama on MN once you have had kids they turn 18, you push them out the house and say see you occasionally, never to be involved in their lives ever again. Never to support them mentally or physically. After all they are grown adults who can stand on their own two feet.

If they have their own children, after all you did your time raising children, which was completely awful and never brought you joy at all, you should never offer any support to your child. Never call to check in with your own child only to speak to the grandchildren as you are a super involved grandparent who speaks to them every three months on the phone. However when you go out for lunch with your friends at the garden centre you talk about your grandchildren like you visit or talk daily and gush as they are so special.

And then be super surprised when your relationship with your children and grandchildren isn’t great and you’re lonely.

Don't move closer. It won't change. My parents complained for years that I always live so far away. I'm now 15 minutes drive and DF sees the kids maybe once a quarter. And when he does see them he doesn't care what they are interested in. Kids pick up on that very quickly. They offered to meet us for tea this weekend and I said that my DH had a bad cold and I had hurt my back so we weren't great company but the kids would have loved to see them...so they made plans with friends instead. Had it been my MIL she would have taken the kids out for tea and given us an hour or so to relax while we weren't feeling great.

Keep trying different toddler groups etc. I found my group at a small toddlers and now I have close friends. School also brings a lot of people in to your life if your eldest is going soon.

It's one of those things where it's nice if they want to be more hands but you can't complain if they don't for whatever reason. I'd try building your local network now and just visit parents when you can.

How old are your parents? I remember that my mum, who was the most involved grandmother in the world, felt nervous about looking after toddlers when she could no longer keep up with them. She didn't feel she could keep them safe.

My partner has no parents alive or around either and we live a 90 minute drive from each of our families (in opposite directions). My mum visited once a week when I couldn't drive due to having a C section but since then I have always gone to visit her because we chose to move away. So I would say YABU there. However, YANBU to observe that maybe your mum thinks you should do things unsupported the way she did. My dad was also very uninvolved but my mum is the opposite of yours because she knows how it feels to not a get a break. She often watches my daughter when I visit so I can pop to the gym etc

I do think your Mum sounded quite spiteful when she refused to look after them rather than being worried to look after them on her own. My Mum didn't have much help when she has small kids and she would always help where she can, distance permitting. If I asked for a night out it wouldn't be a problem. If we lived nearer I don't think she would have be up for permanent childcare arrangements but would help out occasionally.

I think you need to accept that your parents don't have the same vision as you and then you need to build your own village. Go back to where you were if you have connections there and were happy.

Weird attitude to family support on MN. I feel it reflects a wider issue with UK society. It’s wrong to think grandparents might help, weddings are just about the bride and groom and guests don’t matter etc. Every person for themselves.

OP you need to take a deep breath and accept they won’t be what you think they should be. Your mum’s comment about the pub says everything about how she feels. I would just be polite and accept it. You can do no more and it’s not worth a major rift.

When the kids are older and at school, a new village of support may emerge for you.

I think her model of grandparenting is based on my own grandparents who were in their mid-80s and had us over for tea and biscuits.

This is an interesting comment OP. I didn't have any grandparents as a child but I had some lovely great aunts, who I adored, but I don't think they ever looked after me solo. It was very much go to theirs and be given an amazing high tea and then go home.

DH was looked after by his Grandma for years when he was little and both his parents were working full time. We don't live anywhere near his parents but when they do come to stay or we go there, they are very very involved. So maybe it is partly a case of what people experienced themselves.

That said - it sounds like she was extremely snippy about you wanting to go out, which is unkind. Even if she felt that way, she didn't need to put it like that.

JackiePlace · Today 08:48
How old are your parents? I remember that my mum, who was the most involved grandmother in the world, felt nervous about looking after toddlers when she could no longer keep up with them. She didn't feel she could keep them safe”

This is a valid point. Adore our adult kids, great relationships. Live close by and see them very regularly. Our grandchild is wonderful and we really enjoy spending time with them all. Have to admit though that I don’t really relish the regular days when I have sole charge of him. He’s great fun and we have a lovely time but I deliberately limit what I do with him for fear of not being able to keep him safe out of the house/garden. I’m well and reasonably fit for my age but he has been known to dash out of shops/cafes etc. on a whim and I’m not entirely sure I could keep up with him if he did so with me. I’m looking forward to moving away when we retire. I’ll visit very regularly but will no longer have sole charge. So much more at ease when mum and dad are there, too. W have him overnight now and again, too, to give mum and dad a break but it takes me a couple of days to recover 😁

No one gets to have their cake and eat it too. You included. You made life decisions, mostly poor ones. Make friends in the village you are in, be happy to have healthy children and raise them as any parent should. It is not your mothers job to offer babysitting at any time. She reads to them, makes them lunch and allows you all into her home. That is all she is required to do as a grandparent. These are your children not hers. Time to grow up and be a woman.

I don’t know what you expect when they live 5 hours away? 🤷🏻‍♀️ They turn up, are nice to the kids and but you want to sod off to the pub? From their perspective you’re always running away. Perhaps they’d appreciate a nice relationship with you before looking after your kids?

This.

Wow! People are being really hard on you @Villagemama. I didn’t have any family help when my kids were little. I know how isolating it is. (We ended up moving with toddlers to the other side of the planet but the lack of involvement was already glaring so it made little difference.) I don’t know what stopped you calling your mum out for being a bit of a virtue-signaller with her comment… I wouldn’t have been able to help myself. “You’re what??? You haven’t been to visit at all since baby 2 was born and you refused to babysit for an hour when we came to visit you. Making a sandwich or reading a story once or twice does not make you an “involved grandmother”, it makes you a friendly stranger.”

Looking after toddlers and sitting watching TV whilst they sleep is not the same thing. I think it’s fairly minimal work and everyone is happy. You get a small break and everyone is better company.
Even MIL who hated being alone with small children would have done that (although I wouldn’t let her as she locked them in their room if they cried!)

The question is if you moved back how much help would your parents expect in 10-15 years?

Thanks for this honest post. I sometimes think the majority of mumsnetters assume grandparents are some sort of machine.

As it is I am feeling the lack of village! It’s been just my husband and me for a long time it feels. No one who’d step in if we were sick, who’d offer to look after the kids if we wanted to get a task done or offer a place to visit on a wet day inside with the kids

There are many parents in this situation. My mother lived 4 hours away, and if she visited, I had to drive and collect her, and then take her home afterwards. She was happy to sit and talk to the children when they were older, but there was no way, ever, she would have changed a nappy or fed them, or cooked anything, and certainly not "ever" would she have agreed to be left alone with them. I think she wasn't confident in doing any of those things.

I was maybe sometimes a bit irritated at how uninterested she was in helping, but she was who she was and I'd always known it and never really expected it. Hence was never disappointed.

There is some truth in your first paragraph but how often to we read on MN that everyone is expected to do every little thing the mother's way and mothers are critical when grandparents, especially 'his' parents, don't follow the mother's regime to the letter?
I have my grandchildren to stay, one stays for a lot of the school holidays, and their parents have never dictated tiny things, just made sure that we were broadly on the same page, after all they themselves have survived my parenting skills. As they're older I joke with them What happens at Grandma's stays at Grandma's!

Unless they are very elderly, which you've said they are not, it's pretty shit that they haven't visited you once.

And it's not like they don't know your kids at all. They've presumably had extended visits with them, spent time with them, got to know them, seen how you care for them. It really wouldn't be that hard for them to mind them for an hour or two while you're staying so you can have some child-free time.

Yes, they don't owe you anything, they've raised their children, you can't expect free childcare ya-da-ya-da-ya-day...

But it goes two ways. They're not entitled to expect you regularly to schlep two tiny children to their house on a flight plus train and then, having done the whole stressful [pack-up and journey, have no break.

My suggestion to you would be to cut your visits to them by half and spend the money saved on finding a good local babysitter.

My mum was a bit like this OP. She might have reluctantly offered an hour while I worked but blanket no for socialising.

I eventually learned that my mum had had an awful time looking after us kids when we were small. She was depressed and isolated. So When I then asked her to care for my baby for a couple of hours she was rude and snippy but actually she was masking being terrified of being back in that place where she felt alone, inadequate and judged.

I built my own village in time. Mum lives nearby now and copes better now my DC are older, but is still nervous and they pick up on it. It's quite stressful for all concerned so instead I try and do things all of us together. My MIL leaps at the chance to babysit (lucky me) so it works.

I think the primary relationship is between you and your parents. You are their child and living far away I have no doubt that they miss you and look forward to seeing you.

The reality of living far away; and not being able to have frequent contact, is that you are a visitor. Long distance visits are just not the same as being able to pop in for a cup of tea or have more frequent casual social interactions.

I am sure they appreciate you travelling to see them and imagine you do so because you want to see them and spend time. That's what is most precious to them.

I am sure it is also nice to see the grandchildren but if your parents are not involved in their lives as a day to day activity and they are not in the habit of babysitting there may be a million reasons why they don't want to. Whatever the reason you should respect it, just as they respect your life choices.

I also think perhaps sometimes when we don't see our parents often, we can't appreciate how much older and set in their ways they are.

Either way, it sounds like your parents are lovely hosts, tiring though it may be for them - and for this reason you should keep the relationship and visits going. They did not cause your current sense of isolation and neither are they the solution. Honestly, even if you lived in a large city, being at home with toddlers is tough and isolating for most every Mum.