Help! A dog one

[ILoveCoffee222]

Not so much an AIBU more a What would you do now? (Sorry it's long)

I have a 10 month old puppy. He's fairly big now - size of a small skinny lab, or maybe a sheep dog size. Since we got him I've walked him every day in a local field, usually 2 or 3 times a day as he's a breed that needs a lot of walking/running. It's a field mainly used by fellow dog walkers. We know most of the owners and dogs now that use the field. The field isn't used for livestock or anything. Occasionally we meet the odd older couple with no dog, or someone out for a jog. I've never seen children in the field. There are local kid friendly parks with slides etc.. where families tend to go with small children. This field is more of a walkers field if you know what I mean! Although of course, anyone is welcome to use it. My own children join me occasionally to walk dog.

Anyway, I've tried to be a responsible pet owner. We scoped out the field before getting the pup to see if it would be suitable for walking. Since getting him we've kept him on the lead if we see a fellow dog walker in the distance and dog is on lead, or there's a walker or jogger with no dog. When we have past the dog on lead, or people with no dog, and are a suitable distance away, we let him off the lead to run around again. Or if other dogs are off lead we let my pup play with other dogs if owners are happy with that.

Often times the field is empty and we have it to ourselves, so I let him run free off the lead and put him back on if I spot someone coming in the distance, or when it's time to exit the field. All good. So far no incident.

Today was a bit rainy so we had the whole field to ourselves for a good 45 minutes. Noone else was in sight. Pup was having loads of fun sticking his nose down rabbit holes and chasing pigeons around, and generally amusing himself, catching his ball etc.. nothing unusual.

The field is surrounded by hedges with gaps in which lead off to small trails, or various entrance/exits to surrounding paths. Today pup was sniffing by the hedges (that's where the good scents and rabbit holes are!) when out of nowhere a small child about 3yrs old, and her mum came through a gap in the hedge. My pup was nearby and ran up to child. Child fell (or my pup pushed her in his excitement - hard to tell). Then followed, understandably, loads of uncontrollable screaming and crying from the small child who was probably terrified. Child's mum grabbed her and picked her up in lightening speed and I tried to grab pup but he was so excited by all the screaming and sight of small kid he kept circling them and wouldn't respond to me. After probably a minute (but it felt like hours!) I managed to catch pup and put him on the lead. I apologised profusely to the mum, who understandably looked mighty angry and concerned for her kid and she blanked me and they walked off. I walked in the other direction with my pup on lead

Anyway, it was a total shock to see them. One minute the field was empty, the next minute the child was there and dog was practically on top of her.

I feel terrible as the child was so upset. If mum is reading this now - I'm so sorry. Thing is, I just didn't see them. If I had seen them coming I'd have put pup on the lead straight away.

I don't think I was being unreasonable as it seems like just an unpredictable occurrance and I did my best.

But - now it's happened, what do I do? Carry on as normal, letting him run free when the field is empty? or keep him on the lead on the off chance this could happen again (odds r really small). He's a breed that needs good long walks and to run and run, so I just don't think keeping him on lead would be feasible. But now this has happened once I feel there is no excuse for it to happen again and it would be my fault if it did.

If you were the kids mum, would you be despising me now?

I'm really shaken as I think this kid may now develop a fear of dogs, but I just didn't see them. They just appeared. Shit.

This one might be better in "the doghouse" section. I suspect there will be more sympathy there.

My own opinion is that the parent of the child should share the accountability on the basis of appearing suddenly through a gap in a hedge, which can startle anything the other side. Especially with a child. I have had joggers and cyclists appear from nowhere startling my dog. When they grumble about the dogs reaction, I point out that they also startled me and have a responsibility not to.

I get that the normal expectation is the dogs are lower down the order than people, and I agree, however there should be a bit of give and take.

I'd carry on as normal and deal with whatever happens next when it happens.

If your dog doesn't have full recall every single time then he needs to be on the lead. I had to take up jogging to give my setter what she needed being high energy, poor recall and not child or dog friendly. You have to do what it takes - it could have been an aggressive dog that tore into your dog - just not worth the risk.

It was an accident and nobody was injured. Unfortunately with dogs stuff like this does happen occasionally. You apologised so move on.

He’s probably getting towards adolescence though and if they catch a scent they can be VERY hard to recall so worth bearing in mind and discussing neutering with the vet at some point.

Could you hire a secure dog field until you are more confident of his recall? Then he will still get his runs and you can carry on with lead work at the field.

Chalk up today to one of those things, you genuinely didnt see them and as unfortunate as it is that the child got knocked over, sounds like the pup just got too excited. But he needs to perfect his recall so that even if excited in future, he comes back when called.

Unless you're renting the field for private use, you have no idea who or what could suddenly turn up as they have every right to be there too, so your dog needs to be on a lead if it doesn't have perfect recall.

That's interesting Fury. Did your dog ever get let off lead? I have gone for runs with my dog - when his recall was worse and he was younger, but he definitely didn't get the same kind of run, running along along next to me on a lead, as he does when he's running free in the fields. If I race him in the field now, he's way way faster!!! My husband jokes we should take him to the greyhound track - he loves running and running!!

No dog has perfect recall, and this was a total non-event. Nothing to worry about. Work on your dog's recall to improve it going forwards.

I think you have a point. We tried keeping him on an extendable lead for a while, but when theres noone there it just seems mean to have him.on the lead! .. plus he's eaten through two of them now!!

In fairness to pup - his recall is pretty good for the normal conditions of the field. Seeing this kid really startled me and the screaming really excited him. I don't know how I'd know if his recall would be good enough for that kind of situation in the future? But yes, you have a point which I will mull.over

If I was the mum I’d loathe you. You have no right whatsoever to let your dog off the lead in public without perfect recall. None. If you want to exercise her off the lead, buy a house with a big enough garden.

Thanks! Good to know that happens with adolescent dogs. We are looking into the snip, but a lot of vets here advise to wait til 18months or sometimes 12 months (on an aside, does anyone know if 12 months is ok for the snip? Some vets are quite firm about 18months??)

I'd put a trailing longline on him - you can drop the line when the coast is clear, practice working on your recall, and quickly stand on the line to prevent him running off.

Dog on lead, unless you’re paying for a private space.

The law now is that a person just has to feel threatened by a dog for action to be taken, not that it happens much but the law would side with mum in this instance.

I would work on training an in built recall, on a long line for now, every time dog sees a child/dog/cyclist, anything interesting really - he gets a treat, dog will then start to look to you for its treat when those distractions appear

This 👆perfect recall doesn’t exist. You sound like you actually have good control of your dog and behave responsibly. Your dog didn’t attack anyone and sometimes random stuff happens in life. You don’t need to change anything except perhaps teach the “down” or “lie down”command. A couple of sessions with a trainer should crack that.

Crikey Pattypop! I hope this lady isn't you, but I do understand why she'd be angry. I'm sorry you feel so strongly. And I am very sorry to the lady and child I met today.

Do you have dogs Pattypop?

If a dog is alone in a field that you have never seen small children in, and has good recall, it makes sense to me you would let him off. Though now this has happened I'm willing to consider alternative advice.

My dog normally does have good enough recall for the conditions. I didn't know this child would appear from nowhere. I didn't know the dog would not respond to recall in this situation as he's never seen a 3 year old child screaming and crying in that field before, so it's not been tested.

I am trying to weigh up whether to stop allowing my dog his 3 good walks, running free, which have never caused us incident before, on the off chance this might happen again. It seems cruel to stop him if there may never be another incident like this.

Yep. There's no such thing as perfect recall, and unfortunately when there's an interesting noise (such as a crying toddler) that's exactly when your dog's normally excellent recall will go out the window!

I'd chalk this one up to experience, nobody was really at fault (or you both were). If I was walking a child into a field frequented by dog walkers I'd keep that in mind, not act shocked that a puppy was excited by someone surprising him through a hedge!

I think this was just an unfortunate incident. As long as you are sure your dog showed no signs of aggression, then it was just an accident. I think all you need to do is keep your dog closer to you near the gaps where kids might suddenly appear, and keep working on recall.
I've had similar mortifying incidents with my German Shepherd when she was young (not with kids!) but chasing someone's spaniel around, she was playing, no malice in it, but the spaniel was petrified and my dog was completely ignoring me and I couldn't get hold of her. The owner had a face like thunder and it felt like a million years before I managed to grab her and slope off, feeling like shit.
You have my sympathy!

No, she never did apart from when we took her to secure dog fields and paid for the privilege. She's old and doesn't want to go for walks anymore but she can still move like a rocket when it suits her!

Thanks Siding. That's scared me actually. I didn't realise that was the case in law.

We'll invest in a long line. (Out of interest, because you sound knowledgeable and we looked into this before - are there any long retractable lines? We got a 10ft line which is the longest we could find, but it's really not that long at all and pup ate through it, also snapped the second one simply by tugging hard enough to run free. When we bought a massive 20m line that wasn't retractable it was a nightmare to navigate holding and carrying the damm thing! Is there a nack to it?)

Go back to basics and training.
Use a long line til DDog shows recall won't be distracted.
It was a accident this time but clearly the dog needs exposure and training around different scenarios including exciting ones be that other dogs or children.

Don't let off lead til recall is firmly done or rent a private dog walking field in the meantime for sessions.

Thanks Qhaecciarr, makes me feel a bit better!

You can walk him on a lead can’t you? Your dog is only a pup and already you’re into the entitlement of ‘it seems cruel to my fur baby’ whining.

perhaps you ought to have thought about where you were going to exercise your untrained dog off lead prior to getting it.

Would add that your only letting him off lead when no distractions about such as other dogs etc so would appear that whilst he has some recall he clearly doesn't have decent recall to be able to return quickly or remain under control off lead (I also have a dog btw!)

I agree with others, this is a non-event. If the area is known as a dog walk paradise with many off lead then the parent has to take some responsibility for taking a young child there knowing there is a chance of meeting free roaming dogs.

I have the same set up where I live with a big field, which the council cut a figure of 8 to form a walking route. The area around it is community woodland, farming and waste ground. It is heavily used by dog walkers, domestic and professional/commercial and almost exclusively off lead. It is also hoaching with wildlife. Families and younger kids tend to stay within the nearby community woodland as it's got proper paths, benches and is generally more child friendly.

It is an important note about recall though as these areas almost always have caveats. It took me a lot of concerted work with PoshDog to teach him it is not acceptable to run up to dogs on leads, chase rabbits/deer/squirrels etc. Do take the time to work on this, it's worth it.

Also worth noting that these spaces, although infrequently, do have other people around in them, so be prepared for surprises. The council down with their grass cutters and hedge trimmers; kids on motorcycles; quadbikers; groups of teenagers camping out (always broken glass after they've been around); offroad cyclists etc. Joggers not so much in the field I walk in - it's too slippy muddy! Today saw a pile of workmen arrive to do something at what I think is an electric substation, they've got the gates open and digging out the yard outside the building, lots of vehicle movement and churned up ground.

Basically what I'm saying is have your dog ready to deal with all the little unexpected hazards that present themselves from time to time. He'll only learn if he's exposed to these situations, under your control. If you can't or won't train him fully then the safest place to be is a private rent dog field.

:) thanks