Help! A dog one

[ILoveCoffee222]

Not so much an AIBU more a What would you do now? (Sorry it's long)

I have a 10 month old puppy. He's fairly big now - size of a small skinny lab, or maybe a sheep dog size. Since we got him I've walked him every day in a local field, usually 2 or 3 times a day as he's a breed that needs a lot of walking/running. It's a field mainly used by fellow dog walkers. We know most of the owners and dogs now that use the field. The field isn't used for livestock or anything. Occasionally we meet the odd older couple with no dog, or someone out for a jog. I've never seen children in the field. There are local kid friendly parks with slides etc.. where families tend to go with small children. This field is more of a walkers field if you know what I mean! Although of course, anyone is welcome to use it. My own children join me occasionally to walk dog.

Anyway, I've tried to be a responsible pet owner. We scoped out the field before getting the pup to see if it would be suitable for walking. Since getting him we've kept him on the lead if we see a fellow dog walker in the distance and dog is on lead, or there's a walker or jogger with no dog. When we have past the dog on lead, or people with no dog, and are a suitable distance away, we let him off the lead to run around again. Or if other dogs are off lead we let my pup play with other dogs if owners are happy with that.

Often times the field is empty and we have it to ourselves, so I let him run free off the lead and put him back on if I spot someone coming in the distance, or when it's time to exit the field. All good. So far no incident.

Today was a bit rainy so we had the whole field to ourselves for a good 45 minutes. Noone else was in sight. Pup was having loads of fun sticking his nose down rabbit holes and chasing pigeons around, and generally amusing himself, catching his ball etc.. nothing unusual.

The field is surrounded by hedges with gaps in which lead off to small trails, or various entrance/exits to surrounding paths. Today pup was sniffing by the hedges (that's where the good scents and rabbit holes are!) when out of nowhere a small child about 3yrs old, and her mum came through a gap in the hedge. My pup was nearby and ran up to child. Child fell (or my pup pushed her in his excitement - hard to tell). Then followed, understandably, loads of uncontrollable screaming and crying from the small child who was probably terrified. Child's mum grabbed her and picked her up in lightening speed and I tried to grab pup but he was so excited by all the screaming and sight of small kid he kept circling them and wouldn't respond to me. After probably a minute (but it felt like hours!) I managed to catch pup and put him on the lead. I apologised profusely to the mum, who understandably looked mighty angry and concerned for her kid and she blanked me and they walked off. I walked in the other direction with my pup on lead

Anyway, it was a total shock to see them. One minute the field was empty, the next minute the child was there and dog was practically on top of her.

I feel terrible as the child was so upset. If mum is reading this now - I'm so sorry. Thing is, I just didn't see them. If I had seen them coming I'd have put pup on the lead straight away.

I don't think I was being unreasonable as it seems like just an unpredictable occurrance and I did my best.

But - now it's happened, what do I do? Carry on as normal, letting him run free when the field is empty? or keep him on the lead on the off chance this could happen again (odds r really small). He's a breed that needs good long walks and to run and run, so I just don't think keeping him on lead would be feasible. But now this has happened once I feel there is no excuse for it to happen again and it would be my fault if it did.

If you were the kids mum, would you be despising me now?

I'm really shaken as I think this kid may now develop a fear of dogs, but I just didn't see them. They just appeared. Shit.

Fully agree! Even if it wasn't a dog it could have been sharp branches or nettles or a rabbit hole or anything

I agree, no dog has perfect recall and it’s impossible to practice unless they’re off lead and do have distractions.

it sounds like the child was scared rather than injured so if I was the parent I’d be annoyed but not upset if you see what I mean

we used to walk our dog early mornings when no one was around to practice recall, but they do get there in the end. You sound very responsible

I agree, no dog has perfect recall and it’s impossible to practice unless they’re off lead and do have distractions.

I get a bit fed up of people saying this.

If your dog has poor recall, that doesn't mean you just let them off to "practise". You need to use longlines and proper secure fields to keep your dog safe.

How would you like the child to come onto the field, waving a flag and tooting a whistle in advance?

Humans are entitled to enter a field with dogs running at them.

We have 2 dogs, one with total recall and one not, the only time the one without recall gets off is in secure places where there is zero chance he can run off or run at people, or worse still, run under a car.

What responsibility have I deflected? I don't like people who threaten to kick animals, it makes you a shitty person.

I don’t believe for a second that most of these posters would actually kick the dog. If an excitable labradoodle or cockerpoo or whatever similar breed the OP has they generally look pretty friendly and acting in an excitable rather than aggressive way, I think you’d think “ffs get a grip” rather than “this dog is an actual threat to my child’s life”. Different if it was an XL bully baring its teeth and snarling but I just don’t believe in this situation people would actually kick the dog

I think you don't need to feel guilty about it, but learn the lesson.
I had similar with my dog when he was a puppy and a toddler and felt terribly. (Nothing happened but the toddler panicked seeing a big dog)

We take him off the lead in spaces that are quite open plan so we can see people in the distance (He is 3 now and can be reactive towards some dogs)

But I don't think you should take your dog off the lead in that area if you know people can show up throw the small trails. Next time might be a reactive dog on a lead and your dog (no judgement) as clearly no recall so it is a risk.

You cannot guarantee recall, ever though. There will always be a time when you have to let your dog off the long line for the first time or off in a public field that has dogs / people in it etc. Generally you work up and only get to those stages when you trust that your dog will be ok but you never have a guarantee they won’t run up to the other dog / chase the squirrel etc.

Its pretty accepted in our doggy park which sounds like the OP’s that people are fine with their dogs in this situation being let off lead, but wouldn’t do it in a park with kids etc

OP - I have a long line (about 30 metres maybe).
When I was training recall, I didn't let him have so much of the line, we increased in stages.
You do get all tangled up, but I used the local park (which is busy) and realised I was able to drop the line on the floor, and let him have free run around basically, but made sure I was always able to stand on the line if needed (no tangle at all).
We went during all sorts of times. Other dogs on there, if he showed interest in the dogs, I'd call him back. If he didn't come, I'd walk up the line to him and put him back on his normal lead without any fuss and just walk him away.
Same when they had football/rugby matches and training on. He had enough line to run free, but if he looked like he was approaching the matches or the balls or the cones, he'd be called back. If he didn't come, again I'd walk up the line and pop him on his normal lead.
I'd stand in the field doing nothing and reward when he returned to me voluntarily. I started to throw his ball and play games and just increased what he could do.
His recall is as good as it can get I think, he won't approach anyone or anything without permission and he comes back straight away when called. He does push his luck in places we go often (he runs around in the woods, but I keep timing him and he won't be anywhere he can't see me for more than 10 seconds max).

He would still jump or be spooked if someone came upon him through a hedge unexpectedly though, that's just nature and I'm not sure there is anyway to train him to not get spooked. I jump all the time in situations, although nobody has ever tried to train me out of it!

@ShirleyPhallus they absolutely would. I've seen people kick and hit out of control dogs plenty of times because they didn't want to be jumped at or knocked over.

Lots of dog owners are also unaware that their dogs can be considered dangerously out of control when they behave like this. If your dog frightens someone or makes them feel as though they're at risk of being bitten, they can still report you and an offence has still been committed.

So no, people don't need to "get a grip" and I say that as a dog walker and owner. Your dog has to be under control at all times, even on your own property. I see too many people with dogs who really shouldn't be off the lead.

It sounds like you're a responsible dog owner (I loathe people who let their off lead dog bolt over and jump all over my on lead dog, so thank you for being conscious of this and using the lead where necessary). I'd invest in a 50 metre long line, and tie knots down it every metre or so so you can grab this easily and reel him back where necessary. Try to avoid retractable leads though, as when the dog reaches the end of this at full speed, it can cause damage to them.

@McOrange yes, I've said upthread you can't guarantee recall but that doesn't mean you have the right to let your dog off regardless.

Too many dog owners don't take recall seriously and just let their dogs off lead regardless of how well trained they are.

Yes, all dogs can have recall fails and yes, accidents happen but that doesn't mean you can use that as a get-out clause for your badly behaved dog, and ultimately if your dog knocks someone over or frightens someone or runs into a road, you're the one responsible.

If your dog has poor recall, that doesn't mean you just let them off to "practise". You need to use longlines and proper secure fields to keep your dog safe.

But you can do all this, and still not have "perfect recall". I wouldn't take a puppy out without practicing recall thoroughly at home/garden, and when we are first going out and about I go to places that are quiet and I can easily see people/dogs ahead and put them on the lead. Yet even with all this practice, and high value treats, it's still not guaranteed 100%.

Then if your dog doesn't have bear-perfect recall, don't let it off the lead 🤷‍♀️

Your dog has no right to be fully off the lead.

This

I'm curious as to the status of this "field". It's clearly not a dog-walking field (the type that you can hire for a small fee), so what exactly is it?

Is it agricultural, part of a farm, does it have crops growing or is it a hay meadow? Do people have a right of access? Perhaps it has a right of way through it, in which case the public (and their dogs) only has the right to walk on the footpath itself, not on the surrounding land.

Is this "field" open-access land? If it is, please remember that although people have a right of access to walk there with a dog, at this time of year (March to September usually) dogs are only permitted on open-access land if kept on a short lead, of no more than 2 metres in length.

You really don't think the mum should shoulder a little responsibility for not checking where her child was walking?

My dog's reactive due to being mistreated by humans. He's scared of everything. Only ever off a lead in a private field. He's got a behaviourist who we've spend £££ on to try and help him and us navigate his issues caused by violent humans. I will always check ahead wherever we walk. I cross the road, or turn back if I can't cross, on paths with other users - usually several times each walk. We leave parks if there's an off lead dog running about. He has position/command that he has to adhere to if we're too close to other people/anything that might make him jumpy. I have to do this way in advance of any triggers. If I can do this to make sure my dog is safe and not stressed I'd imagine a mum could have a quick look to see if there's any sort of (perceived!) danger the other side of a hedge.

I'd probably be teaching my child to enter an area it couldn't see into clearly more carefully. That's a good life skill to have generally.

I don't disagree that nobody wants a dog running at them uncontrolled, all I'm saying is that the responsibility is shared.

If the scenario were changed to a cyclist cycling down the edge and someone burst through a gap in front of it, then I'd still say the person bursting through carries some responsibility (not all) for anything that transpires.

You really don't think the mum should shoulder a little responsibility for not checking where her child was walking?

Well yes, morally speaking you could argue that mum should be checking, but ultimately the law is that dogs need to be kept under "close control" - children don't.

If something happened, it would be the dog owner who got prosecuted and the dog that ended up under a control order or worse, being out to sleep 🤷‍♀️

The fact that mum should have kept a closer eye on things won't change the outcome for you or your dog.

Won't change the outcome for the kid if it gets hurt by anything happening the other side of that hedge either. I'd rather try and protect my offspring than argue about it later.

Sure, but the point is that dogs still need to be under close control whereas humans don't,

Your child isn't going to be taken off you or forced to wear a muzzle and lead in public if it annoys a dog - whereas that's exactly what could happen to a dog if it's not trained.

Ultimately a dog has no legal right to be off the lead. If you can't have your dog under voice control then it needs to be on the lead or on a long line.

My dog is under complete control for his safety. Same as kids should be.

I'm not saying it isn't - my comments are aimed at the people who just let their dogs off regardless as they "need the practise".

It's a lesson learned OP, if there's a chance people can pop through the hedges then probably best to keep the dog away from there as you can't see what's coming, and nearer to you so none of you are surprised.

The child's mother maybe should have thought to check as even someone walking a dog on a short lead next to the hedge could have been surprised and a had reaction to someone popping out right in front of them - the responsibility does go both ways in a situation like this.

Unfortunately now he's discovered that it's all a bit exciting you may have gone back a step with control and recall - it happens. I'd be going back to the long line, keeping the dog away from the edges for now and back to working on recall.