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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Just checking if iabu before I kick off...

435 replies

TheSnootiestFox · 29/03/2023 22:59

Is 4 and a half hours in an urgent treatment centre without being seen even for triage unreasonable for a 12 year old with a suspected broken foot? No pain relief, nothing and he's been crying and begging me for help for hours.....my blood is boiling but I just need a reality check before I decide whether to say something or not. Opinions please!

OP posts:
TheSnootiestFox · 31/03/2023 08:18

ArcticSkewer · 31/03/2023 08:13

Yes - at yours! Where you went somewhere miles from a+e, not in the room next door so obviously basically part of the whole a+e system as per steppemum (which is why she thinks we are terrible for suggesting going to a+e, at hers you get sent next door. I still don't think that's a big deal. Would you have found that a big deal?)

You went somewhere with daytime only opening hours and chose to sit under a poster for four hours telling you that 111 calls were prioritised (and didn't at that point call 111 to get said appointment or to check if you were in the right place) and then chose to go home instead of to 24 hour a+e.

Steppemum's situation is actually far worse. Apparently there broken bones are not dealt with at all by a+e so it's a daytime only service and you get turned away from a+e when it is closed. I say apparently as I would be very shocked but it could be true, things seem terrible these days.

Your wait for triage was appalling but why the rest of it? That part is on you. At least a 4 hour wait somewhere that is open 24 hours makes some kind of sense. That's assuming your urgent care can deal with fractures that turn up rather than referred via a+e/gp. Mine can't but if yours can, great. You'd hope they would tell you as you book in, as per steppemum in reverse. But possibly only after triage, which would be poor!

Steppemum's situation is actually far far worse. I worry for us all if fractures are considered a daytime only non 'accident or emergency'.

Anyway I am glad you got things sorted. The wait is disgraceful. I've learned to always phone 111 for advice from this thread. I did actually remember doing that a few years ago for something and being sent miles away to what was probably an urgent care centre I didn't even know existed til I phoned! That was an appointment system as well. Left to myself I would have gone to a+e but it worked out probably quicker. So 111 seems a good call.

I didn't move him as I was awaiting instructions from the so called medical professionals.

Also, in the back of my mind was the time when he was a toddler and his older brother collided with him on a bouncy castle. We took him to the big a and e in the next city with a query broken arm and sat for hours. When my husband and I said we'd take him home, make him comfortable, arrange childcare for his brother and bring him back later when it was hopefully quieter, we were told that if we left we'd be classed as refusing treatment for an injured child and social services would be informed, so we stayed put. Why would I risk even more hassle by leaving knowing that is their policy?

OP posts:
Pottedpalm · 31/03/2023 08:23

Helpmeimtired · 29/03/2023 23:07

He’ll be fine.

Bloody hell! Why bother to type such a dismissive comment?
How do you know he will be fine? Would you want your child crying in pain for hours? Take a look at yourself!

anyolddinosaur · 31/03/2023 08:44

stressedoutstudent · 30/03/2023 14:32

Our in hosp shop is not allowed to sell paracetamol as staff need to be able to document the time taken once admitted. Theres absolutely no choice of a receptionist - who is already busy in an area like A&E, being able to sell medication. Such a ridiculous suggestion.

No more ridiculous that telling the parent of a child with a broken bone to go out and get some. You could reasonably assume it will be taken 5 minutes after it is sold - if you felt you had to document it. There is no precise documentation of taking any the patient has brought with them. This is just a nonsense excuse.

ancientgran · 31/03/2023 09:01

To all the "go to A&E" comments, I live in the south west, just been on local tv that the health authority in Cornwall is appealing for people to only go to A&E if it is life threatening. I don't think a suspected broken foot qualifies so maybe stop with the "you should go to A&E" because it isn't necessarily what the NHS is saying.

steppemum · 31/03/2023 11:21

which is why she thinks we are terrible for suggesting going to a+e,

you keep misquoting me or putting words in my mouth.

I did not say people were terrible for suggesting it, I was just pointing out that it is not the wonderful solution people think it is, because you get sent home/to UCT.In other words, don't have ago at the OP she is at the mercy of the system.

But I should say that I have been to this hospital 3 times with suspected fractureswith me/my kids

The second and third were recent and we were sent to UTC. One wasn't fractured, I couldn't walk though and was in tears with pain, and was told to walk over to UTC, then the nurse took pity on me and I was put in a wheelchair and taken over. (was during Covid, and dh wasn't allowed in though so no-one to push wheelchair!) One was a toe fracture which they strapped up. They were both in last 4 years ish.

before that, about 12 years ago I had a very bad ankle fracture (snapped both bones) and I was taken in through A&E and admitted, straightened ankle with gas and air and strapped it and then in a bed for 24 hours before they operated.

That was 12 years ago though.
But it mught be indicative of minor fractures v. serious fractures. I don't know.
(and they have rebuild and re-organised it all since, hence the UTC)

ArcticSkewer · 31/03/2023 12:00

ancientgran · 31/03/2023 09:01

To all the "go to A&E" comments, I live in the south west, just been on local tv that the health authority in Cornwall is appealing for people to only go to A&E if it is life threatening. I don't think a suspected broken foot qualifies so maybe stop with the "you should go to A&E" because it isn't necessarily what the NHS is saying.

I was interested so googled it. Wow! Their webpage is amazing!
https://www.cornwallft.nhs.uk/miu-waiting-times/

Short answer is dial 111.

Most of the services are then appointment based.
You can see the number of people waiting (and the open and closed times!) as 'live' information.

It's a+e if life or limb threatening.

You have really good services there. We don't have any of that, not even a miu within 20 minute drive any more.

Emergency and urgent care waiting times

On this page, you can check the waiting times for our emergency and urgent care services in Cornwall and the Isles of Scilly. Contact NHS 111 before turning up.

https://www.cornwallft.nhs.uk/miu-waiting-times

ancientgran · 31/03/2023 13:59

ArcticSkewer · 31/03/2023 12:00

I was interested so googled it. Wow! Their webpage is amazing!
https://www.cornwallft.nhs.uk/miu-waiting-times/

Short answer is dial 111.

Most of the services are then appointment based.
You can see the number of people waiting (and the open and closed times!) as 'live' information.

It's a+e if life or limb threatening.

You have really good services there. We don't have any of that, not even a miu within 20 minute drive any more.

I don't live in Cornwall, it was reported on the news for the south west so we heard it in Devon as well. Where I am you can't book appointments for A&E or MIU by phoning 111 although one small hospital that isn't too far away has out of hours doctors based there and you can get an appointment to see them, well you could the last time I used the service which was pre pandemic.

We can also look at waiting times and people waiting for our local A&E and MIU but we can't make appointments, you turn up, get triaged and wait. It can be misleding, at the moment it says 64 in A&E but only 9 waiting to be seen which means 55 have been triaged not that they are all getting , treatment, waiting time of 1hr 17 mins is to be seen by a nurse or doctor which can be triage.

I had a similar situation with our A&E a few weeks ago, I looked at our local Devon page, MIU close to closing time and 5 people waiting to be seen at A&E, so got there and A&E for walk ins was being run by one nurse practitioner and the waiting room was full. HCA was trying to do crowd control with the drunks and she was pretty amazing with the patience of a saint. We waited about 5 hrs which isn't that bad by current standards but it could be a shock to someone going to A&E thinking there is a queue of 5 and they could be seen very quickly.

The fact remains that the health authority are saying they are expecting a very difficult Easter and appealing for people to seek help elsewhere whenever possible. The population will swell tonight and tomorrow as holidaymakers arrive.

Of course plenty of people in Cornwall will be further then 20 minutes away from a hospital or one of those on the list with limited opening times and no xray facilities.

Where I am in South Devon we have integrated care, south Devon is a leader in integrated care.

T1Dmama · 31/03/2023 18:18

As awful as it is, a broken foot isn’t life threatening. It’s frustrating but more urgent cases will jump the queue in front of you.

Belleoverandover · 31/03/2023 18:28

I know no consolation but with a suspected heart attack (after being advised by NHS24) I was left for 8 hours before being triaged.
I hope it's all resolved now for the sake of your child. Not nice for a child experiencing pain like that.

mcmooberry · 31/03/2023 18:31

I know it's all resolved now but I would have (internally) blown a gasket at that utter lack of compassion for my son and spent the time composing my letter of complaint (and I have a VERY high bar before I will complain as I know the negative effects of an unfounded complaint). They must have compassion fatigue or some such thing. The phrase "if you're that bothered" about getting him some paracetamol just sums it up. Even if they had apologised profusely about not having any and reassured you that you wouldn't lose your place in the queue if you nipped out to get some, that would have been easier to swallow. My husband one waited in hours at A&E with a broken arm, we didn't actually think to take paracetamol before heading off, I assumed he'd have a slug of morphine on arrival! (it was a few years ago)

ukgot2pot · 31/03/2023 18:36

TheSnootiestFox · 31/03/2023 08:18

I didn't move him as I was awaiting instructions from the so called medical professionals.

Also, in the back of my mind was the time when he was a toddler and his older brother collided with him on a bouncy castle. We took him to the big a and e in the next city with a query broken arm and sat for hours. When my husband and I said we'd take him home, make him comfortable, arrange childcare for his brother and bring him back later when it was hopefully quieter, we were told that if we left we'd be classed as refusing treatment for an injured child and social services would be informed, so we stayed put. Why would I risk even more hassle by leaving knowing that is their policy?

This is what happened to me years ago OP. I went to A&E with my DD as she had fallen in school and had a bump on head. She was then sick some time after. We sat waiting for hours and were eventually seen by many different child doctors. I saw one who was absolutely vile. She made me feel like an criminal and was asking me so many questions about my C-section and random stuff not related at all. She was very very rude and I got a horrible vibe from her.

After hours of waiting with no answers, my DD at the time (she was 5) was very distressed as nobody had provided food for her and I decided the best thing was to take her home, get some food and rest and then take her to a different hospital in the morning.

A few hours later, the doctor called. She told me she was going to phone social services and my mum answered and said ' I am social services'. She soon STFU. I put a complaint in about her the next day, but it was a horrible experience none the less. I know the NHS have a job to do with safeguarding etc, but that particular doctor and how she treated me has always stuck in my mind. I avoid the NHS now at all costs unless absolutely necessary.

neilyoungismyhero · 31/03/2023 18:38

Similar thing happened to my GS, he had to crawl into the hospital despite 2 medics walking by my daughter trying to get him out of the car on her own, no assistance offered. No wheel chair available in paeds apparently. In the end someone advised her to go to adult a and e where he was eventually seen despite being in awful pain throughout. They came out full of apologies- he had broken his hip. Once he was in the system his treatment was faultless but actually getting into it was a huge issue.

slowquickstep · 31/03/2023 18:41

TheSnootiestFox · 29/03/2023 23:11

I just did, and was told there's a shop down the road, but I'm bothered that if I leave he'll lose his place in the queue.

Just remember this when you all praise the NHS, they can't even be arsed to give a child that has a suspected broken foot paracetamol. Please do not tell me the nhs is underfunded.

MarvellousMonsters · 31/03/2023 18:44

trythisforsize · 29/03/2023 23:15

If it were me I would have given my child a couple of paracetamol plus before heading to A&E, and taken the packet with me.

For all you know they are resuscitating 6 car crash victims that came in on blue light. Harsh I know but your sons broken foot is not life and death - painful though. Raid the chocolate machine and keep his mind off it.

Unless of course if you mean bone-protuding-through-skin type of broken - then I'd be pissed at waiting 4 hours.

I'd do the same.

GettingStuffed · 31/03/2023 18:45

At Christmas I was sent to A&E with breathing difficulties, I was triaged in about 10 minutes after arrival.

landbeforegrime · 31/03/2023 18:47

OP - I'm so glad you finally managed to get the care your son needed. I cannot understand at all why anyone thinks you were being unreasonable. They either didn't read, can't read or really have been indoctrinated to expect a sub standard service and as you said earlier are therefore entirely part of the problem. I resent having to use A&E and the fact that even with private insurance there are no alternatives in some situations. The list of failures and terrible care is endless and I won't hijack your post with my tales of woe, but just wanted to add to the thread to let you know that anyone who thinks you were BU is bonkers and not worth responding to; you can't use reason where there's no sense.

Grannyolive · 31/03/2023 18:52

Feel your sons pain, but you need to tell the nurses he’s struggling and needs medication.

A few weeks ago I took my daughter to A&E with a terrible sore throat. She couldn’t swallow, had to keep spitting in a bowl. Kept telling them she was in agony. After 7 hours they found out she had an abscess on her vocal chords plus her throat was closing up. Eventually she received intravenous antibiotics and painkillers.
They’re so busy, rushed off their feet but people are going to die if something isn’t done soon!!!!!!

fairgame84 · 31/03/2023 18:54

TheSnootiestFox · 31/03/2023 08:10

I have made a formal complaint btw, but its in East Yorkshire. I have no sentimentality about naming it!

If it's the one in Beverley then you are not alone. DM has had similar bad treatment there and ended up going to HRI.

OoooohMatron · 31/03/2023 18:55

ancientgran · 30/03/2023 15:32

I hope your dad is OK now. That is inhuman treatment of an old sick man.

Thank you. He pulled through thankfully

Nailsandthesea · 31/03/2023 19:01

This has no relevance to the way you voted. That is shocking and I’d complain.

doesn’t matter if it is unfunded or understaffed - that’s not fit for purpose

BlueMongoose · 31/03/2023 19:03

TheSnootiestFox · 30/03/2023 12:08

I didn't actually vote, not that its any of your business actually, but very unlike me because as a woman I'm aware other women died for me to have the privilege. I don't like what the Tories have done to the Nation but there was no way that Labour was a credible option at the time either. Currently worrying about the next election as I feel the same now!

Also, I am one of the few in the UK that have lived in the US and due to a no fault road accident experienced quite a lot of the American health care system. I'm not sure where the fear of people paying for insurance comes from but I'd be more than willing, I already have basic private health care here but of course there's no private a and e provision apart from that one mentioned up thread. The NHS can't go on as it is, so let those of us willing to pay our way do so!

1 People who don't vote don't get a free pass. You don't get to complain if you don't at least vote for the best available option
2 Labour rebuilt the NHS during their last tenure to the point it had incredibly high satisfaction levels. What on earth makes anyone think the tories are good for the NHS? They have spent the last decade proving they can't be trusted with it- and many other decades before that

Lunde · 31/03/2023 19:11

Minor injury departments can be total crap in the UK

Went into one while visiting the UK on holiday in Cornwall a few years ago when 8 year old DD was bitten on the finger by a mouse (she was trying to rescue it from a cat but it wasn't too grateful). After a 2 hour wait and examinations by 2 (alleged) hcp it was declared beyond their capabilities for treatment. As a hcp in a Scandi country DH couldn't understand what the purpose of a minor injury unit should be if it couldn't deal with a minor injury.

In the end a local health centre sorted us out although they had no clue what to do with our Eur0pean Health card

Bugbabe1970 · 31/03/2023 19:15

Not acceptable at all but that's the state of the nhs now
My 80 year old mother was waiting in a chair for 14 hrs before she got a bed
She died a week later
The NHS is shit!

PrimoPiatti · 31/03/2023 19:20

Grim, and it will get worse if the current organised crime syndicate posing as our government get another term.

Spyrothedragon23 · 31/03/2023 19:43

@TheSnootiestFox wasnt Beverley UTC by any chance?