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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Just checking if iabu before I kick off...

435 replies

TheSnootiestFox · 29/03/2023 22:59

Is 4 and a half hours in an urgent treatment centre without being seen even for triage unreasonable for a 12 year old with a suspected broken foot? No pain relief, nothing and he's been crying and begging me for help for hours.....my blood is boiling but I just need a reality check before I decide whether to say something or not. Opinions please!

OP posts:
User4891 · 30/03/2023 16:28

It just seems so cruel to deny a child pain relief in a situation like this.

nobody is denying him pain relief! FFS where do people get these ideas? They haven't yet found the time to give it him. That's totally different to just deciding they can't be bothered

Mangogirl12 · 30/03/2023 16:48

Oh OP that is terrible, I would write a letter of complaint to the head/Director of the UTC and outline what happened, everything you've said here. That really is not good enough that they closed and left a child crying in pain. That is absolutely not good enough, on any level. I hope your son is feeling a little bit better now.

susiesuelou · 30/03/2023 17:04

@KittyAlfred

I'm not underestimating anyone. I was making an educated guess at perhaps what the logic was in not providing pain relief prior to triage.

ArcticSkewer · 30/03/2023 17:14

ancientgran · 30/03/2023 16:25

We don't have UTC we have A&E and MIU which apparently is more or less the same. They are over 2 miles apart so no simply turning left or right.

Okay.

So if you go to A+E with a broken foot in your area, they refuse to treat you and send you 2 miles away? Or they treat you in a+e?

In steppemum's example, they are on the same site so they just redirect you. I don't think that's a big deal.

TheSnootiestFox · 30/03/2023 17:20

EstelleOrders · 30/03/2023 15:38

YABU, clearly a lot more unwell people with life threatening injury's ahead. Kicking off? I don't think so.

In minor injuries? It was all broken fingers and cuts....

OP posts:
TheSnootiestFox · 30/03/2023 17:24

EstelleOrders · 30/03/2023 15:48

Nurses won't help? Why have you took him to urgent care instead of A&E? What a awful attitude you have.

Yes, awful. The UTC because that's what it's there for - and I agree, my attitude was awful 🙄 God forbid that I should expect a group of highly trained professional people to do what they're highly trained for and I enjoyed every minute of the four hours my baby was sobbing.

FFS, get a grip. People like you are exactly why it's thought acceptable to go through what we did last night.....

OP posts:
TheSnootiestFox · 30/03/2023 17:25

Mangogirl12 · 30/03/2023 16:48

Oh OP that is terrible, I would write a letter of complaint to the head/Director of the UTC and outline what happened, everything you've said here. That really is not good enough that they closed and left a child crying in pain. That is absolutely not good enough, on any level. I hope your son is feeling a little bit better now.

Thank you, he's hobbling about helping his brother get packed for his ski trip currently!

OP posts:
TheSnootiestFox · 30/03/2023 17:25

User4891 · 30/03/2023 16:28

It just seems so cruel to deny a child pain relief in a situation like this.

nobody is denying him pain relief! FFS where do people get these ideas? They haven't yet found the time to give it him. That's totally different to just deciding they can't be bothered

It was denied for four hours.

OP posts:
ancientgran · 30/03/2023 17:44

ArcticSkewer · 30/03/2023 17:14

Okay.

So if you go to A+E with a broken foot in your area, they refuse to treat you and send you 2 miles away? Or they treat you in a+e?

In steppemum's example, they are on the same site so they just redirect you. I don't think that's a big deal.

In my local hospital it isn't a simple walk, the OP is the same so it isn't so simple. I think it is even further for her.

ArcticSkewer · 30/03/2023 18:01

Yes, so you go straight to a+e don't you? Like I would? I certainly wouldn't then be redirected to minor injuries miles away. Whereas if I went to minor injuries with a major injury I might well be redirected to a+e. Which is why I don't go there with broken limbs (toes/fingers mine can deal with)

Anyway it doesn't matter. I was really saying to steppemum, not op, that it's hardly a big deal to go to a+e by mistake if all they do is direct you down the corridor to the urgent care centre. I wouldn't consider that to be a big deal.

1AngelicFruitCake · 30/03/2023 20:03

LakieLady · 30/03/2023 15:25

When I was in A&E a few months ago, they had people coming round distributing packed lunches in little carrier bags for patients waiting to be seen. Each one had a sandwich, a drink and a chocolate biscuit.

Given that people who need to be admitted sometimes have to wait 24 hours before they get a bed, it's probably just as well.

That’s lovely! We were lucky and at 8pm
they brought toast and juice for the children.

1AngelicFruitCake · 30/03/2023 20:05

ancientgran · 30/03/2023 16:07

I was sent to walk to xray when I broke my ankle, no help offered, no wheelchair available. As I struggled back, leaning on the wall and in pain a nurse came running with a wheelchair, they'd seen the xray and it finally clicked that I wasn't saying I was in too much pain to walk for the fun of it.

Fast forward, go to MIU with broken foot, immediately offered an wheelchair, short wait for xray and then the senior nurse insisted on wheeling me out to the drop off/collection point where my husband had the car waiting. Two miles apart, same trust, different world.

Shocking but not surprised. My daughter had to walk to x ray, walk back again. Im Trying to carry her but really struggled to. They said I’d be lucky to find a wheelchair!

ancientgran · 30/03/2023 20:14

1AngelicFruitCake · 30/03/2023 20:05

Shocking but not surprised. My daughter had to walk to x ray, walk back again. Im Trying to carry her but really struggled to. They said I’d be lucky to find a wheelchair!

Crazy isn't it. I hope your daughter is OK now.

steppemum · 30/03/2023 22:38

ArcticSkewer · 30/03/2023 15:37

And how would this be terrible? You are asked to walk, what, 200 metres? Essentially it's like moving from one part of the hospital to another. They've just triaged so broken bits turn left, other cases turn right, in a way. So going to A+E is still the right decision, just then follow the signs for the specific part that deals with broken bits (if you are there within its opening hours of course, otherwise stay in a+e)

Ops urgent care seems to be miles from the a+e, so when it closes at the end of the day, it closes. It prioritises calls from 111 and tells you that in reception (so you can phone from there). There isn't a handy x ray machine and doctors on 24hour call a two minute walk away.

You completely missed the point.

After the OP had sat in UTC and was sent home, people were saying to her don't go home go to A&E.
They were also saying you shouldn't have gone to UTC
In our hospital, A&E would just send you right back to UTC.
In other words, A&E won't see you if you try and go there after UTC

ArcticSkewer · 30/03/2023 22:44

Really? So your urgent care closes at 5pm and all the broken bodied people just limp home for the night, to try again tomorrow.

That's terrible @steppemum

steppemum · 30/03/2023 22:58

I don't know what they do if you turn up wiht a broken foot after hours. I suspect you would be seen by OOH doctor and sent home to return in the morning.

It si really common to strap people up and say X-ray opens at 9am. That has been going on for years

ancientgran · 30/03/2023 23:08

steppemum · 30/03/2023 22:58

I don't know what they do if you turn up wiht a broken foot after hours. I suspect you would be seen by OOH doctor and sent home to return in the morning.

It si really common to strap people up and say X-ray opens at 9am. That has been going on for years

Yes. Forty five years ago I took a 2 year old son to hospital with suspected broken leg, my nextdoor neighbour was a sister at children's hospital and she was sure it was broken. They looked at it and said nothing they could do till the next morning to come back at 9 am. So in my experience you are right it has been going on for years. At least you can easily carry a 2 year old home.

JackiePlace · 30/03/2023 23:54

This type of wait doesn't seem unusual to me . I was at the SDEC in a hospital in Bristol last week and they had a sign up at the entrance saying the wait will be approximately 8 hours! Thankfully mine was just over 1hr as an appointment had been made for me beforehand.

JackiePlace · 31/03/2023 00:00

Incidentally when OH had a compound fracture of the humerus he was kept overnight in hospital without any pain relief as a matter of protocol. I think it was something to do with concussion as he had been in a car accident.

Mothership4two · 31/03/2023 02:58

TheSnootiestFox · 30/03/2023 13:07

Exactly! Zero empathy and zero candour.

I recently was in a&e waiting with DH when an elderly woman sat next to us. She was in a lot of pain in her neck and back and could barely move. She told me that the nurse on the door had refused to let her son come in with her. I kept her topped up with water but, as she didn't have any money on her, she wouldn't let me buy her a cup of tea a snack (probably too proud). It took 7 hours for her to be triaged and then she was whisked off immediately. If we hadn't been there she would have spent hours alone without even a drink. Not much compassion on show there.

Similar situation a few years ago when a quadriplegic and diabetic family member was left in a hospital corridor for several hours without their carer and not given/offered liquids, food or communicated with. Just left feeling helples, impotent and vulnerable in a potentially dangerous situation.

I agree with above that the problems with the NHS isn't just down to money it's where it's allocated and it needs a massive management overhaul. About 7% of our taxes in the UK goes to the NHS that's a massive amount and more than 3 times what is spent on defence. I have several family members working in the NHS who are tearing their hair out over the system

TheSnootiestFox · 31/03/2023 07:22

ArcticSkewer · 30/03/2023 22:44

Really? So your urgent care closes at 5pm and all the broken bodied people just limp home for the night, to try again tomorrow.

That's terrible @steppemum

That's exactly what happened though, @ArcticSkewer ! x

OP posts:
TheSnootiestFox · 31/03/2023 07:23

JackiePlace · 30/03/2023 23:54

This type of wait doesn't seem unusual to me . I was at the SDEC in a hospital in Bristol last week and they had a sign up at the entrance saying the wait will be approximately 8 hours! Thankfully mine was just over 1hr as an appointment had been made for me beforehand.

It's not the waiting for treatment that offended me though, that's a given. It was the lack of triage. 4 and a half hours without triage is unacceptable 😤

OP posts:
FannyPhart · 31/03/2023 08:09

TheSnootiestFox · 31/03/2023 07:23

It's not the waiting for treatment that offended me though, that's a given. It was the lack of triage. 4 and a half hours without triage is unacceptable 😤

I think this centre needs naming if it is this incompetent.

TheSnootiestFox · 31/03/2023 08:10

FannyPhart · 31/03/2023 08:09

I think this centre needs naming if it is this incompetent.

I have made a formal complaint btw, but its in East Yorkshire. I have no sentimentality about naming it!

OP posts:
ArcticSkewer · 31/03/2023 08:13

TheSnootiestFox · 31/03/2023 07:22

That's exactly what happened though, @ArcticSkewer ! x

Yes - at yours! Where you went somewhere miles from a+e, not in the room next door so obviously basically part of the whole a+e system as per steppemum (which is why she thinks we are terrible for suggesting going to a+e, at hers you get sent next door. I still don't think that's a big deal. Would you have found that a big deal?)

You went somewhere with daytime only opening hours and chose to sit under a poster for four hours telling you that 111 calls were prioritised (and didn't at that point call 111 to get said appointment or to check if you were in the right place) and then chose to go home instead of to 24 hour a+e.

Steppemum's situation is actually far worse. Apparently there broken bones are not dealt with at all by a+e so it's a daytime only service and you get turned away from a+e when it is closed. I say apparently as I would be very shocked but it could be true, things seem terrible these days.

Your wait for triage was appalling but why the rest of it? That part is on you. At least a 4 hour wait somewhere that is open 24 hours makes some kind of sense. That's assuming your urgent care can deal with fractures that turn up rather than referred via a+e/gp. Mine can't but if yours can, great. You'd hope they would tell you as you book in, as per steppemum in reverse. But possibly only after triage, which would be poor!

Steppemum's situation is actually far far worse. I worry for us all if fractures are considered a daytime only non 'accident or emergency'.

Anyway I am glad you got things sorted. The wait is disgraceful. I've learned to always phone 111 for advice from this thread. I did actually remember doing that a few years ago for something and being sent miles away to what was probably an urgent care centre I didn't even know existed til I phoned! That was an appointment system as well. Left to myself I would have gone to a+e but it worked out probably quicker. So 111 seems a good call.