Who was PM during the best of times for you?

[verdantverdure]

Me?

Blair. Brown, first bit of Cameron.

On paper I earn more money now but everything's tits up isn't it? From the economy to shit on beaches to being able to get access to the NHS when needed.

200,000 people in London according to the organisers, 100,000 according to the police. So probably somewhere in between.

Polling, however, shows a majority in favour.
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2015/06/03/remembering-iraq

Nothing. Both as bad as each other in that regard.

This shows the scale

In February 2003, 1.5 million people protested in London against the looming Iraq war. They didn’t stop the conflict… but their legacy still looms large

https://amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/feb/11/slugs-iraq-war-london-protest-2003-legacy

There’s also a very good programme re 20 years on on BNC iPlayer which I’ll check out, what I’ve heard is v interesting

BBC..

I don't suppose that kind of protest march would be permitted these days.

Thatcher. Just kidding.
Blair.

*The Tories have been blaming their disasterous fiscal policies on ‘global events’ since I was born.

Blair/Brown was pretty much the only government who invested in education, health and public services in my lifetime.*

This

How's that "investment" working out? That is the problem with both parties and probably our electoral system in that they do not think long-term/strategically (10 years+) but just until the next election. Blair/Brown wasted hundreds of billions on buying our votes with our own money (eg child trust fund) whilst not securing a long-term sustainable health service amongst other things.

Blair/Brown wasted hundreds of billions on buying our votes with our own money (eg child trust fund) whilst not securing a long-term sustainable health service amongst other things

How exactly do you think they could have future proofed the NHS against Tory cuts?

"long-term sustainable health service amongst other things."

Do you think medicine and associated infrastructure is a one time investment?
Or do you think that workforce planning, preventative programs, building/adapting hospitals and retaining experienced staff and updating equipment need a rolling level of investment to keep pace with the country's needs?

There has been nothing stopping further investment under the Conservatives over the last decade - I'd put money on that being a vote winner.
Although maybe receiving large donations from private health providers distracted them.

The Labour manifesto also included significant cuts at the time.

This. Just as I started my teaching career. He also brought in same sex civil partnerships, which benefitted me.

Difference is where the cuts would be made. The manifesto said

As we more than halve the fiscal deficit over the next four years, we will ensure that we do so in afair way with a combination of a return to economic growth, cuts to lower priority programmes and fair tax rises. Responsibility at the top means people paying their fair share and we believe it is right that those with the broadest shoulders bear the greatest burden of paying down the deficit.

^Labour believes we should protect frontline spending on childcare, schools, the NHS and policing, and reform our public services to put people in control.
Millions of people working in our public services embody the best values of Britain, helping empower people to make the most of their own lives while protecting them from the risks they should not have to bear on their own. Just as we need to be bolder about the role of government in making markets work fairly, we also need to be bold reformers of government.^

Not the slash and burn of ideological austerity.

I think the problems with the NHS are structural and my point was they should have taken advantage of their relative popularity and better finances (left by the Major government) to change the health system to something like the more efficient European ones rather than short-term measures. They could also have encouraged preventative measures and encouraged people to take more responsibility for their own health.

John Major and Blair.

Not because of their politics, just coincided with some really lovely times.

Again, what are in your opinion mickey mouse courses? and what % did these?

Without any data to back up your assertions, they are just hearsay.

My two nieces and nephews went to Uni in the 2000's, did what you might call "mickey mouse" degree's (Media and Art) and now both have very successful careers in very relatable industries.

I really don't know what areas now require a degree now that previously never did require formal training in and "just worked their way up in" e.g Construction - no trade requires a degree now and never has.

Nursing is often quoted but prior to degree's, *they required 3 years in training colleges, very long placements, lots of exams and resulted in diploma's, same with accountancy and law.

"my point was they should have taken advantage of their relative popularity"

In 1997 net satisifaction of the NHS was then at an all time low of -16% and half the population rated it as the most important issue of the day.

That was up to 51% satisfied in 2009.

https://www.bmj.com/content/338/bmj.b374

Not so, Govt borrowing after the GFC and when the Tories took over in 2010, was 65% of GDP, it is now 100%.

There was plenty of financial headroom in 2010, an argument can be made for short term austerity i.e. 3 to 5 years but not 13 and still on going.

All our problems of under investment in nhs, education, defence, roads, transport and no Green technologies are linked to Austerity.

Its like not maintaining your house, having a leaky roof and then spending a fortune on fixing collapsed ceilings and damaged carpets but never fixing the roof... this is how the country is now run.

Yesterdays ch4 news highlighted a Oxford company designing the worlds most efficient Solar panels BUT they wont be manufactured in the UK but in Germany, the Govt wont invest, so we now import them.

Tory Britain.

NHS satisfaction peaked at 70% in 2010 a month after Cameron was in - and before Austerity took hold.

https://fullfact.org/health/satisfaction-nhs-peaked-2010/

It was only 37% when Blair took over, so he and Brown nearly doubled it!

I guess in return we had a decent health service and education system.
What do we have for the 100%?

@Kazzyhoward It was only 37% when Blair took over, so he and Brown nearly doubled it!

Indeed they did, after bring it back down from 40% to 30% with a well run economy but the point is, even at 65%, Austerity wasn't needed.

The Tories then took that debt of 65% and increased it to 82% before covid hit, despite Austerity, with a badly run economy & brexit, then added £21 billion of fraud to that debt, with a cavalier attitude to public money.

Very selective framing - you chose to include post 2008 which was a necessary response to the international banking crisis. If you take the period before that, borrowing was pretty flat. It really soars from 2010 on - under Tory rule.

https://www.economicshelp.org/blog/334/uk-economy/uk-national-debt/

What did you expect after bailing the banks out to save the economy? It’s 100% now. It was 35.5% in 2007.