To make you aware that surrogacy is going to be liberalised

[VestaTilley]

Today, the Law Commission have published their final recommendations to Government, calling for reform of surrogacy laws in the U.K.

The proposed change would make commissioning parents legal parents at birth. That means that the birth mother would never be regarded as the legal parent, nor would she be listed on the birth certificate.

This has been privately lobbied for behind closed doors, away from women and maternity groups for years. The Law Commission consulted in 2019, but never published their responses or said who had fed in to their consultation.

Law firms and surrogacy agencies are rubbing their hands with glee today: I feel physically sick.

They would have you believe surrogacy in this country is “altruistic”. This is not the case. Women can receive upwards of £20,000 per pregnancy in “expenses” - which is a huge financial incentive to a woman if they are from a poor background.

Do we want to live in a society which creates a servant class of women? Which takes babies away from their mothers at birth?

When pregnant we are all advised to bond with our babies, breastfeed if we can and speak to our babies in utero. How does the NHS square this advice with making it legal for a child to never legally have a connection to its own mother?

If you are in anyway concerned about these proposals please, please contact your MP and raise all the noise you can to try and stop this before it is too late:

https://www.lawcom.gov.uk/surrogacy-laws-to-be-overhauled-under-new-reforms-benefitting-the-child-surrogate-and-intended-parents/

It seems that all the safeguards that the surrogacy fans say are in place, had an epic failure here.
Saying that biologically fathers also rape and molest their children is NOT the win surrogacy advocates seem to think it is. Just because it happens biologically doesn't make it acceptable for a man to buy children and then abuse/traffick them. If the safeguards aren't strict enough then either fix them or halt the process until you can.

I don't think you understand. In the eyes of the law, the surrogate and her husband are the only people with parental responsibility. Can you imagine the surrogate's husband being got on the phone to discuss the treatment options for a baby's jaundice if his wife is at work? He doesn't care for the baby and he can only helplessly suggest the doctor talks to the child's parents - their primary caregivers. Babies are currently in this limbo for over a year depending on the speed of the courts. It does happen. It would not stop them getting life saving treatment but it does delay treatment for which a doctor has to seek consent. They don't go around waking up judges but it is a constant time consuming, inefficient problem that goes down to the lack of any official role for the primary care givers until they suddenly get full parental responsibility after the PO is granted. It is a kink in the system that certainly doesn't help doctors or babies. I can understand why they want to do something about it.

Then that's the way it should need to be. No compensation will equal no one doing it for the money. No exploited third world women or women doing it for financial gain.

So do I. Doing it out of love with zero financial incentive is nothing like the "for profit" USA or "expenses" UK.

That certainly sounds much better for everyone.
NGA can always find another area of law to concentrate upon.

You don't have the interests of babies are heart if you're denying them a better regulated system that would make it much harder for anyone unsuitable to be involved in the conception of a child. At the moment, a PO can be refused but by that time a child exists - if the PO could be refused pre conception, the would be parent wouldn't get near a fertility clinic and surrogates would be better informed about them too. I realise you would like to ban the practice completely but since there is no sign of that happening, you do not have children's best interests at heart to deny them this. If you are thinking of surrogates, this is exactly what they have been asking for because they want cut and dried transfer of responsibility, not the opportunity to change their mind. The idea that they do want time to change their minds is a mumsnet myth.

So, up to now it's all been being run willy-nilly and whoever has the dough gets a child?
Maybe this will end up on Oprah's Favorite Things giveaway. YOU get a child and YOU get a child and everyone gets a child!

You're misunderstanding the concept of compensation. It's not a payment. It's to ensure the surogate is not out of pocket. What you are actually suggesting is financially penalising anyone who wants to be a surrogate on the basis that this would ensure they weren't doing it for the money. That's a bit silly. It would be enough to regulate compensation and ensure expenses are genuine. Which is already done.

I don’t disagree.

No. The PO can deny anyone a child. Your comments are distasteful. But by the time the PO is granted the child exists. If the PO is refused they have no parents. The surrogate will not want to have them (although they might force themselves) because the child wouldn't be related to their partner. In practice, that's how surrogates tend to feel. Under the new scheme the PO is applied for prior to conception and a potential surrogacy would end right there if it was refused. I hope you can see, when you've finished making off colour jokes, that this would be more desirable from a safeguarding point of view.

Oh but I do happen to know a surrogate, she did it for the money.

There a lot of ways of paying expenses in the UK as per the Telegraph article posted by @OhHolyJesus above.

I know a lot of people both a surrogate mother and an adult woman who has been traumatised by adoption despite being placed with a loving adoptive family.

• the surrogate’s loss of earnings--or what she could be earning if not pregnat
• the surrogate’s partner/spouse’s loss of earnings--so her DH or SO can also stay home to "help"
• additional childcare to support pregnancy and clinic/antenatal visits--so free childcare for her other children so she can get proper rest
• help with additional cleaning to support pregnancy--a amid? a cook? a housekeeper?
• additional food and other supplements--top notch foods, just keep the receipts for that grass-fed Waygu beef, lobster and smoothies
• additional classes or therapies to support pregnancy--a spa trip twice a week should suffice. Pregnancy massages, water exercises and mental health care such as mani-pedis all will help the incubator feel better
• travel and accommodation before, during and after pregnancy (whilst setting up the surrogacy arrangement, treatment and in recovery)--Can't recover at home but I am sure there are five star hotels that will give the incubator time to rest and recover
• maternity clothes--Oh, just 30 outfits and shoes will be just fine. Cannot have that emotional turmoil of wearing the same thing twice in one month.
• a modest recovery break for the surrogate and her family--DISNEY WORLD, the original in Florida, at the Grand Floridian will help the whole family recover from their ordeal and get connected back together again
• other incidental expenses that relate to the treatment and pregnancy--Can't do my own hair, hurts my carpal tunnel that creeped up with this surrogacy. Ditto my nails-hands and feet. I need someone else to drive me here and there and can hardly trust a cab or Uber if something happens. I think a Hummer limo will do fine so the kids I already have can get to school and childcare, I can get my hair washed, massages etc.

I am sure NO surrogate would ever, ever, demand above board treatment. I am sure all receipts from the above can and will be kept. I doubt many women get 20K, but yet, how much does the law firm get? Or are their "expenses" more important than the surrogates comfort and health?

Read my reply above with the "expenses". If UK surrogates are not getting REAL expenses, then they are doing it wrong. Everything I listed in my reply is a legitimate expense and if they have the receipts, they should be paid.
Also, over here in the States, it's usually a good sum of money PLUS expenses which can be quite substantial. Keep those receipts.

@Nanaof1 your posts are getting more and more nonsensical. The UK is not like the US for a while host of reasons.
No an agreement for surrogacy in the uk doesn’t come close to anything like 20 k and why do you keep bringing up law firms? Hardly any surrogacy takes place in the uk, it’s not the moneymaker for anyone that you think it is or are trying to imply it is.

The UK surrogate I know definitely did very well from the expenses. She had 4 children of her own and enjoyed pregnancy.

It was for the money.

Legal fees DO matter because if a surrogate is only allowed a cheap existence expense page of 15-20K pounds, how much is the legal team getting for doing absolutely nothing but printing up some forms? Ditto the surrogacy clinic. To me, it sounds like a LOT of people are making good money selling surrogacy EXCEPT for the incubator. I would tell any possible surrogate to follow my expense list, since I am betting that the total for my list MIGHT be equal to what the clinic/law firm gets. If it's more, well good for the incubator, they risked their life and no one else did.

A uk surrogate on average receives 10-15k in paid expenses. The legal fees and ivf cost a fraction of that.
Again the uk is nothing like the US.

Heinous. Unfortunately this can happen no matter how a family is made. You're perfectly reasonable and within your rights to push for a ban on surrogacy if you wish. In the meantime, the new proposal would have brought this man under greater scrutiny before the babies were conceived which would have been in their best interests.

Don't hold your breath for a logical or thoughtful answer. It doesn't happen because buying a baby is a rich man's game. Even if the surrogate doesn't get paid much, you KNOW the clinic and the law firm are buying vacay houses, fancy cars and sending their children off to the best schools in the world. Yet, what do THEY do during the process? Print off some papers to have people sign and take the money in? Yes, the clinic does get the surrogate pregnant but that still isn't worth as much as the surrogate's job. Hers lasts nine months+.
The clinics and the law firms will promote this because for THEM, it's lucarative. Just like the sex change factories. If there is money to be made, there will be professionals and charlatans selling it.

I agree with you - no surrogacy agency should be for profit. And in the UK, none of them are. But you sound like you think surrogates should get more in expenses? That's an unusual position on mumsnet.

It won't have been more than 25k and probably a fraction of that. I think it's averaging at 17k.

Sorry not averaging. Higher end of what's accepted is usually that.

Well said, I couldn’t agree more.

Yes 🙌🏼

The idea that they do want time to change their minds is a mumsnet myth.

Ah so you didn't read that tweet then. Got it.