Is it ever ok to steal?

[Kayem458]

Went to do my food shopping early yesterday morning to get it out of the way. Arrived at 7, left at 7.30. Checked my bank this morning, my card was used twice in the shop, I’d paid for my shopping and gone home. My amount was showing as pending and a second amount for £21.35, called the bank first thing both were contactless payments (I’ve obviously left my card accidentally on the machine it was a self serve checkout). Bank confirmed card was used at 7.39 so whoever went to that self serve after me used it. Bank we’re fine and raised it as fraud however I spoke to two advisors, both were lovely and helpful might I add, but the first one said ‘well times are hard for people with cost of living crisis’ and the second said ‘at least it was only 20 quid could have been more’.

I’m going to the store today to give them the exact time for their cctv and I’m also calling 101. Is it just me or does anyone else agree that stealing is stealing no matter the amount? I have really struggled financially in the past and not been able to afford food, heating, bills etc that ‘20 quid’ would have needed to last me a good few weeks, the nights I’ve gone to bed hungry and stealing never crossed my mind! I’m pretty annoyed that the attitude to this is quite throw away, or is this just life now and it’s me overreacting?

You sound awfully judgemental @Zebedee999

Honestly, while I have never knowingly stolen anything in my life, I think voting Tory is far more morally indefensible than small-scale shoplifting.

It's not a good thing to steal. Obviously. I don't think morals have particularly broken down and made people in general think that it's just totally fine and doesn't hurt anybody.

But I think there is more room for the idea that people don't just make bad decisions because they are bad people and that is the end of it. That is a very simplistic view. Most of the time people are making the best or least-worst choice that they can, so often things like stealing are because they do not see a legitimate way to get what they want (or need). That might not necessarily seem accurate from outside but it seems that way to them.

There have always been people who don't care if they hurt anyone outside of their own immediate circle, I don't think the proportion of those people has changed.

If you say so. I am from an older demographic where a parents duty included ensuring their children knew right from wrong and admonished them if they were stealing and not condoning it.

It's not great to steal, but is it ever ok? Well, yes, I'd steal to feed my starving family if I was ever in that position. And if I was in the position of judging the person who did that, I would feel they were actually a saint if they had fed their family by stealing, but not eaten any of the food themself.

In your position, I would tend to feel that it was likely to be someone who needed the food - a scumbag would have spent more, now that the limit is £100.

I've had similar - I left my phone on a shelf in a supermarket (while mystery shopping and taking a secret photo with another phone). I realised virtually immediately, and within 5 minutes I had it returned to me at customer services, but the 'kind' person who returned it (and yes, of course I was pleased and relieved to have it back) had removed all the cash tucked into its cover. Fortunately they left the debit cards. Grrr, but hopefully they needed the money.

Me too @Zebedee999 but not everything is black and white.

I've owned various shops and shop lifters cost me much needed margin. You and I have polar opposite views. I'd not bar anyone from a shop of mine for race/creed/political view as I am not bigoted but I would bar thieves that you seem to be condoning.

(PS I am guilty of voting Labour and they created a dodgy dossier to create an illegal war which cost millions of lives, even today I can't vote Labour as they won't say what a woman is. They are all a shower.)

I was going to say it's never OK to steal but there are grey areas.

For me there is a difference between stealing from an individual and stealing from a company. Stealing from an individual can cause psychological harm in a way that stealing from a big company might not. Similarly stealing someone's last 20 quid (like may have been the case for the OP, the thief didn't know their victim's financial position) is different to someone stealing the same goods from Tesco - nobody will be immediately harmed.

I suppose the way I look at it is "need for goods you can't obtain legally" versus "risk of harm to victim."

Most people who think they would never consider stealing might be tempted in extreme and hopefully implausible circumstances, a Black Mirror-esque "I've got your kids and you can't have them back unless you steal my old car back from the person I sold it to" type of thing.

Having just read your last post @Zebedee999 I can fully understand why you said what you said😞

it's only immoral to steal if you're poor

I saw a family in the supermarket ages ago with cheap items in their trolley. What made me notice them was when the mum put a pack of lurpack into the pushchair and not the trolley. She then did the same with a block of cheese and some cooked meat.
I chose to ignore because they were obviously unable to afford the fillings for the sandwiches. I felt ashamed that this society in this day and age still has poverty staring in our faces should we choose to look.

Well this is the country that enables the British museum. Stealing seems part of the fabric of the uk

Was the card machine the type that you could leave your card sat on top? I did that once in a cafe, I left my card on top of the handset and then when they ran the transaction for the next customer my card got bipped again.

I don't think it's ever right to steal. I think stealing is better than starving though. We own a shop and take a very different approach with people who are stealing a sandwich VS people stealing a whole basket of tuna, and it's not because of the value. People stealing to directly feed themselves (rather than as a source of income) are rare though IME. The ones that steal as a source of income put an amazing amount of effort into it, proper full time jobs

I used to work in a supermarket and i do think not all thieves are equal. It's so complex. Ultimately it's all wrong and I wouldn't condone it but some broke my heart. Some were just scum bags. Some were addicted to drugs. Some (you'd assume from what they bought) were feeding their family. One was keeping up appearances (found it harder to have compassion for her to be honest but in truth you'd need some serious mental health issues to be carrying on the way she did) and one had an ED and was recently released from hospital and her family were controlling her money and her food and she couldn't cope so was trying to steal a top to get money to buy food that had calories listed on them so she could know what she was eating. There were times I didn't want to call the police, and just let it come out of our margin/planned losses but the whole area is so grey. (However in the op's case I think it's probably an opportunist thief rather than a hard working desperate single parent off to feed their young children)

Thats ridiculous its not an old lady stealing a tin of stewing steak or a struggling single parent finding a tenner on the ground and keeping it, this was a card fraud!

I recently went to sainsbury's, scanned my items, selected to pay by card and the payment went through without me presenting my card. The numpty before me had left their card on top of the card machine. I really didn't appreciate queuing at the customer service desk to explain what happened and get the £4.50 transaction reversed and I can easily see why someone would say fuck it, it's no big deal.

It was the card reader where you leave the card on top.. I’ve carried on packing and forgot to pick it up, on that sense yes there is blame on my part. However the person who has come along next has seen it there and just decided to use it to pay for their own shopping I think.

I am totally onboard with various situations (no one knows what goes on behind closed doors) some on here are heartbreaking, where genuine people need to feed themselves and/or children. In those cases, you do what you need to do.

Thankfully there are lots of honest people who do the right thing, the lady at the bank could have easily had a field day!

As many a poster on mumsnet will tell you, you only have to follow rules/laws/whatever that you personally agree with.

Therfore, whether it is ok to steal or not is entirely subjective.

If this is what happened (which it sounds like it is because OP left her card there) then the refund from reversing the transaction wouldn’t be immediate. It would still show up. So, for all anyone knows, OP will get the money back and this person did actually pay for their own shopping.

If a homeless woman, for example, steals sanitary products out of desperation, yeah I think that's fine. She needs those more than very wealthy business owners need her money.

10/10 for trolling.

No it's never ok to steal, aside from the moral and legal aspect the thief probably assumes the person they're stealing from is better off than them. Most of us work hard for what we have it's not ok to take something because you have something someone else wants. I'd chop off hands of thieves.

Not necessarily, people quite often on autopilot, scan your stuff, press pay, the machine goes beep while you're getting your card out, look at the reader and there's someone else's card on top.

In the UK where people have access to benefits, it's not Jean Valjean stealing a loaf of bread.

There are some people, e.g. have assets so can't access benefits, but for various reasons have no actual money temporarily. I wouldn't begrudge someone like that a jar of dolmio and a bag of pasta. Not everyone can access a food bank. I'd say, if someone needs to eat and has no other way to get food then that's when stealing or begging are their two options, and you can understand someone not wanting to be humiliated by begging on the street. Not everyone has friends and family.

I mean you didn't notice the card was there when you left...