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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To leave toddler screaming?

79 replies

Justinthemiddle · 28/03/2023 19:55

I’m really struggling with DS (2 years 4 months) and bedtimes. He was an absolute star until recently and then started trying it on if you like but only very slightly - he’d ask for another book and then whimper / whinge a bit but be fine after some gentle talk about sleep being important and so on.

Just recently he’s been awful. His routine is watches Night Garden on CBeebies then bath, teeth, milk and stories. It’s been like this for months so he knows. But he runs away when Night Garden finishes and then has an absolute screaming tantrum, really wild and sobbing and frantic, when changed and put in bath. Eventually calms down and is fine in pyjamas and so on and we read five books. Then bed. Except the screaming tantrum has returned when I put him in bed Sad

I hate leaving him screaming but I honestly am not sure how else to deal with it. He does calm down eventually - put him to bed at 1940 and he’s chatting to himself now so not asleep but not wild either. But I just need some reassurance I’m doing the right thing and also if not how I should be dealing with it?

OP posts:
Duttercup · 28/03/2023 22:18

I've actually just come out the other side of this with my 2.7 year old so let me share my wisdom.

Lol, no, I have no wisdom at all but bedtime has improved. Firstly, she is still in a cot (it's huge) and still naps so we're similar there. She's happy in her cot so I have zero plans to make my own life more difficult, and I tried to drop her nap and...that was not happening.

What did work was consistently talking about the bed time routine during the day before everyone was stressed. So, we're going to do x,y,z at bedtime even down to 'we'll have two stories and three songs'. And then not deviating, even with pleading.

Then I go back in straight away for the first three shouts of 'mummy' so she can get whatever nonsense requests she has out her system, then I switch to going back every 5 minutes. I tell her I won't be back any quicker so she should save her shouting energy. She has no interest in me sitting with her or holding her hand, it only stokes her up.

I read on some social media waft that she needs a sturdy leader at bedtime, so I try and channel that and it sticking consistently to the plan has worked (watch tomorrow bedtime go to shit now 😂)

Mischance · 28/03/2023 22:19

Something has frightened him - he is not "trying it on."

Careerdilemma · 28/03/2023 22:20

For a few weeks try no screens for the three hours before bed as the blue light can disrupt their sleep. Also a silly 15 minutes of running around, jumping etc before winding things down for bed and bath are surprisingly helpful.

Please don't leave him. He's so little and needs you to help him learn to regulate his emotions.

Duttercup · 28/03/2023 22:22

Would also like to confirm that she was absolutely not scared of anything. 100% arsing about, 0% fear.

museumum · 28/03/2023 22:26

The “don’t leave them alone” and “they’re frightened” parents really need to understand that not all children are the same. For some, a parent staying with them is overstimulating and torture. My ds is 9 now but at 2 he was incredibly inquisitive curious and interested in everything. He could not ever sleep with an awake person in the room with him. Staying with him was torture. He didn’t want to go to bed but needed to be left alone to wind down. it took me years to trust myself against those on man who said leaving him was cruel.

IWasFunBeforeMum · 28/03/2023 22:29

Just before 7 that awful show finishes and does nothing to calm kids down before bed routine IMO. Try shifting everything a bit earlier

TomatoFrog · 28/03/2023 22:33

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Mischance · 28/03/2023 22:34

Indeed - not all children are the same. But a child who suddenly breaks from what is normal for them does so for a reason.

One of mine started to get in a state at bedtime - I did what parents do in all situations, which is to try and get inside her head and put myself in her place and try to understand. We started putting a mattress at the foot of our bed and told her that if she needed to she could come in silently (we made a game of the idea of not waking Mum ad Dad up) - she became much better at bedtimes and gradually stopped needing to creep in.

LSSG · 29/03/2023 05:20

FlounderingFruitcake · 28/03/2023 20:35

It sounds like a classic tantrum. It’s not separation anxiety if it starts when you put in the night garden on, which I would definitely be stopping in favour of other stuff because a specific routine like that is only worth if it if it helps. I’d 100% leave him to it. I also wouldn’t be reading 5 books at bedtime, we read lots during the day but bedtime is short and sweet- 1 story and done. And it sounds like it could be time to drop the nap, you could start by capping it to 30 minutes and asking nursery to do the same.

I wouldn't leave him to it as such but agree with the rest. A tv programme and 5 books is way too much stimulation.

Mumma · 29/03/2023 05:47

Stop watching ITNG as the end is clearly triggering complex feelings. Maybe do something else in the routine?

Have you tried the 'now then next' visual approach? A chart with pictures showing

Now : tv
Then: bath
Next: story/bed

JumbledE · 29/03/2023 05:54

I would leave him for a few minutes, if that’s all it takes for him to calm down the I am sure it’ll be a short phase. My eldest started listening to sleepy tales audio books around this age which stopped him from getting upset at bedtime so if you feel it’s more than a phase then you could try something like this, or a night light if he doesn’t have one already. Personally, I would try to avoid lying down with him as that may start a habit. 🤷‍♀️ I am aware some people will disagree with this but there you go!

shutthewindownow · 29/03/2023 05:57

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It isn't awful it's teaching the child it's time to stop sodding around now and go to sleep ! Parenting it's called.

WhatNoRaisins · 29/03/2023 06:45

I used to resort to staying nearish and doing something boring like folding laundry or cleaning the bathroom. Basically give them no incentive to stay up because nothing interesting is going to happen.

SaladBarNanny · 29/03/2023 07:14

How recently is recently? Clocks went forward 3 days ago, so do you're essentially starting his bedtime an hour earlier.

Having said that, my instinct would be he's overtired too. And if the start of the routine - Night Garden - triggers his upset, maybe think about changing the routine.

DrHousecuredme · 29/03/2023 07:22

At this age we had a stair gate on the door as he'd just transitioned to a bed. So I'd tuck him in, close the stair gate but not the door then potter around upstairs. He could see me and I'd occasionally say "sleep time now, mummy will be here in the morning" etc but nothing more. The phase passed quickly when he realised that he hadn't been abandoned but I wasn't going to give in either.

ElegantlyTouched · 29/03/2023 07:40

Is h3 actually tired? My dd has always been a night owl and wouldn't fall asleep much before 10 at that age. Putting her to bed earlier just meant playing around and tears. And baths were out as any signs of tiredness she has left down the drain with the water.

If you don't need to be up on Sat try being more flexible on Friday night and waiting til he really shows signs of needing sleep.

Mondayblues23 · 29/03/2023 07:52

We use in the night garden sometimes too.

The only problem is when that bloody carousel spins around he gets really excited and starts screaming. He does the same when macca pacca blows his trumpet!!!!

We moved it a bit earlier (iplayer) which seemed to work better!

TomatoFrog · 29/03/2023 07:54

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justwantobeamum · 29/03/2023 07:57

Sorry wouldn’t be giving ITNG as part of bedtime routine. Screens before bed are not recommended.

MintGreenLife · 29/03/2023 08:39

How long has this been going on for? Could it be due to the clock change? I had bedtime dramas last night and DS (20MO) didn’t go to bed until 10pm. His usual bedtime is 8-9pm and I think last night he just wasn’t ready as not adjusted to the shift in the clocks yet. He was protesting I think just because he didn’t feel ready. They have a period of alertness 2hrs before their bodies come to expect sleep, and so trying to put them to bed during this is almost always impossible. I tried for 8.45pm last night, which to him was 7.45pm and so way too early for him to be able to fall asleep. It’s tricky adjusting after the clocks have changed but I’m trying (and failing 😂) to adjust his bedtime by 15 mins at a time to bring him back to a more sensible time!

Duttercup · 29/03/2023 10:16

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Oh, stop. Telling a two year old that it's time to lie down and go to sleep and then leaving the room when they're busy body-slamming the bed and laughing maniacally isn't doing long-term emotional damage. Not everyone has a sensitive, deeply-feeling child. Some people have joyful lunatics who don't know what's good for them.

TomatoFrog · 29/03/2023 10:25

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MrsSkylerWhite · 29/03/2023 10:27

(Teeth/milk ought to be the other way around)

Original poster
Justinthemiddle · 29/03/2023 10:29

@TomatoFrog i honestly think he just needed a while to calm down. He got very worked up because to not beat around the bush he didn’t want to go to bed. Ten minutes later he was chatting and singing to himself and then eventually went to sleep!

I am honestly not particularly authoritative as a parent and nor do I aspire to be, but if I had kept going in and out and in and out it would have exacerbated the issue to a ridiculous extent. I think it’s a transition of clocks changing combined with an uncertain nap stage that’s done it.

OP posts:
Duttercup · 29/03/2023 10:32

Justinthemiddle · 29/03/2023 10:29

@TomatoFrog i honestly think he just needed a while to calm down. He got very worked up because to not beat around the bush he didn’t want to go to bed. Ten minutes later he was chatting and singing to himself and then eventually went to sleep!

I am honestly not particularly authoritative as a parent and nor do I aspire to be, but if I had kept going in and out and in and out it would have exacerbated the issue to a ridiculous extent. I think it’s a transition of clocks changing combined with an uncertain nap stage that’s done it.

Despite what others on this thread might think, I'm an absolute soft arse. Sometimes mine has to just get it out her system and there's nothing I can do to help her with that and my presence makes it much, much worse. Keep doing what feels right for you and your child.