To consider giving up work?

[Nettlesandbriar]

I know MN tends to be anti SAHM, but I have a fairly unique set of circumstances which contribute here.

I was pretty old when I met DH and had already lost both parents. After my dad (surviving parent) died I bought a flat outright as an investment, this is rented out. So I do have a small income from that. I also had a house I used to live in which is now rented out; however there is a mortgage on that and we don’t really make a profit as such.

I was 40 when I had DS. He’s now 2, and I’m expecting his brother / sister midsummer.

DHs work has always been a bit all over the place and I knew this and it’s what I signed up for. He sometimes works away, visiting clients, sometimes abroad but mostly in the uk. What has changed recently is that when he wasn’t visiting clients he was good to WFH but now the company as a whole want people to come in Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday and only WFH Monday and Friday if they aren’t visiting a client.

I work three days a week and these have to either be at the beginning or end of the week, Monday to Wednesday or Wednesday to Friday. I also teach, which is very inflexible and a real headache when (which isn’t unheard of) DS is ill and can’t go to nursery and Dh is away. Things like parents evenings can prove difficult. In the future I know it will work out well from a holiday point of view, but right now it’s a stress.

If I wasn’t working, I keep thinking that we’d all have so much more flexibility. Even things like being able to spend time as a family in term time on holiday without spending a fortune. If DH goes to visit clients in e.g. Ireland we could all go, I could see some of the local sights etc and have DH around in the evenings rather than trying to wrangle two kids and a job (albeit part time) alone. At the moment, things do feel rushed and frantic and as if everything is a stress. We have a good relationship, we are kind to one another, we help one another out, but even so, we are only just managing in many ways.

Is it madness? I don’t know. When I first went back three days a week it felt like living the dream but now I’m longingly thinking of just dropping that side of my life

I didn't return after my second maternity leave (it was Jan 2020 and tbh I think even if I had gone back I would have quit in the March)

I have found it has taken a huge layer of stress out of our lives. I plan to go back to uni in sept when youngest starts school.

You still qualify for the 15 hours which we've used for preschool. That's given me a break and allowed the kids to prepare for school.

You have your own income which is great (we are in a similar situation) I would make sure you've had a good talk to your DH about finances, working hours (yours), pensions, etc.

I've loved this time off and I'm ready now to go back to a very flex job.

Has everyone missed that OP owns property in her name. If she needed out quickly she has her own income plus a place to live.

If you can afford it then I would do anything to make life easier at this stage. Juggling work & small children is really difficult even if you have a support network, why make your life harder if you don't need to? You can always get back to work in a few years. I know some people like to continue working & that's great but it doesn't sound like that's the case with you.

See how you feel half way through your mat leave. You don't have to decide now.

You're in a better position than many to do this as you have a career that is easy to return to and financial security.

The two things I would think about if I were you are:

1. do you really want to be a SAHM? I can't tell from your post if you do or whether it's more that you think it would make everyone else's lives easier. It's hard work and can be quite isolating so worth really thinking about if it's what you want

2. the dynamics can become quite entrenched. If your DH gets used to not having to think about childcare, will it be really difficult to get back to more of an equal place when you return to work? What would his expectations be of you if you were a SAHM and do they match yours?

I know MN tends to be anti SAHM, but I have a fairly unique set of circumstances which contribute here.

congratulations on your pregnancy.

Every family has unique circumstances.

MN isn't "anti SAHM". There is a wide range of opinion but SAHM has its own topic (you may get better advice there?) as well. What MN is anti - and probably out of exasperation - is 5, 6, 10, 15 years down the line when the SAHM posts that they have no savings, no assets, haven't kept up their skills, have 3 kids and now their husband has left them for a younger model and and and.

THAT is what MN is particularly anti. So. First suggestion: ask to get this moved to the SAHM topic. 2nd suggestion don't post goady openings like that because it just gets people's backs up.

3rd suggestion: if you can afford the hit to your household income, pension etc etc, go for it. If not, work something out. Your children have a father who can be involved too.

i became a sahm and didn’t regret it one bit. Do what’s best for you and your family. I didn’t see it as being reliant on one person, or giving up my independence, but working as a team.

No, you would be quite mad. You’re already behaving as though your job ‘has to’ fit around your DH’s, when in a two-career relationship, both parties need to be flexible. DH has a ‘big’ job, which involves regular international travel at unpredictable intervals, but he has to work around my job (academic) and the fact that my teaching hours are inflexible during term time. We’re both DS’s parents.

I didn’t see it as being reliant on one person, or giving up my independence, but working as a team.

which is fine until the team suddenly isn't. And it can happen to anyone at any time. Which is why so many of us say "make sure you're financially covered as a single parent even if you aren't"

OP has some wiggle room with a flat and a house, but even so it is a big decision. Aren't a lot of people currently shocked and scrabbling around to make up NI contributions?
What about if you get sick, OP, can your DH easily take off work to look after the DCs or do you have a robust emergency childcare plan?

(frankly? I loathed being at home with children and went back to the workplace as soon as possible. We are all different)

I really don't see the issue.

You own two properties...you can simply sell one of them, or both, and put that into savings accounts.

You are teacher and it is very easy to get back into the profession, as it is likely there will always be a shortage, if you decided that you need to get back to work after all.

I think you are in a very privileged position and you can easily stop work if you wish.

I would take your maternity leave and then simply tell them at the end that you are not coming back.

I second the point about selling your mortgaged house, how much equity would you have? Would it be enough to continue paying yourself the same ‘salary’ (including pension contribs) until youngest is at school? Keep the investment property but take the hassle of landlording out of a property that you don’t really profit from anyway.

I know people talk about a rainy day but sometimes this is exactly what you have savings for - when DH got made redundant we had two choices, have him have some time at home with the 2 preschool DC, or rush into a job. We wanted to do the former but were so nervous about touching any of our savings (would have used about 25% of our rainy day fund). And then we realised redundancy was the rainy day! Anyway so DH has had 6 months off with the DCs and returns to work later this year in a job that pays better and hopefully will get our savings back up to their original level within a year or so. So these things do have a habit of working out…

Also in the event you ever did split up presumably you’d need to sell one property anyway. And if I’m selling property in my own name I’d rather be doing it to facilitate a good lifestyle while spending time with the children than doing it and immediately handing over half the equity to my ex 😂

What about supply? Keep your hand in but work as and when you want/can. Not all agencies expect you to be available on the day. Some are happy for you to do advance (as in the following week or two) bookings only.

I would. Working with young children if you are the parent on call for illness, dealing with night waking etc is hard. I think life with a parent at home in the first few years is much calmer for everyone. Nurseries can teach them a lot but the children themselves benefit most after age three so there is no rush to socialise them earlier.

I think you should spend some time with your husband working out the financial nuts and bolts of pensions and savings and then, if you both feel comfortable, not make any decisions now but see how you feel on your maternity leave. You may find that life feels much more relaxed and enjoyable or, alternatively, that you're itching to get back to work, so the situation might well resolve itself.

@Tryphenia

DH has a ‘big’ job, which involves regular international travel at unpredictable intervals, but he has to work around my job (academic) and the fact that my teaching hours are inflexible during term time.

Not to derail, but while I understand that in theory, how does that work in the real world? I used to have a 'big' job (city law) and there's no way I could have worked around someone else's inflexible hours. The very words 'international travel and unpredictable intervals' would seem to make that impossible. It certainly was in my case.

Selling the mortgaged house … we did look into that, but the reasons against were actually mainly altruistic, although there are other considerations. The tenant is a single mother with two children, one disabled. In the time since I met DH and started to rent the property out, rents have soared and I am very reluctant to sell the property on that basis. If I absolutely had to, of course I would, but while it is my house, it is her home and her childrens home and it has been for a few years now, since 2016. I’m also unsure what the benefit of this would be for me, a lump sum of probably around £25,000 but then beyond this, once that’s gone, it’s gone forever.

Local authorities haven’t had supply lists since I started teaching, which is some years ago. It’s all agency based around here, and most of them want champagne service on orange juice pay to mix up some metaphors. They will ask you to go to a school and work as a cover supervisor or TA. It just isn’t worth it.

There is a teacher shortage, but a lot of the time ECTs are preferred. And I don’t know what the intervening years will look like. Plus, getting part time could prove tricky, unless I was effectively to take myself out of the game and ‘retire’ at 44. And in many ways, you know, that is tempting. Putting feminism to one side for a moment, and if I purely think about the practicalities of the situation: we have one parent who works away a lot. The second parent being around for the children before and after school and being able to take care of the small details that do matter to children like school assemblies and sports days, ensuring the house isn’t a tip, supporting with homework and the like - well, it probably would on balance work out best for the whole family. On the other hand, it does make you vulnerable.

You're about to go on mat leave so that could be a trial run - see how you like it?

Yes, in a way. Maternity leave isn’t the real world, though, and I think one of the problems is that parenting can change so rapidly. I have gone from oh my god I hate this to oh my god I love this.

I certainly don’t think I’m a natural SAHM in a way. I do love my ds, very much, and I know I’ll adore this one too when he or she arrives. Equally though, I do love a break from the grind. I love ds going to nursery knowing he’ll engage in meaningful activities that I don’t have to either organise or more importantly, clear up the carnage from and eat healthy meals that I don’t have to shop for, make or clean up!

However, that’s a break from parenting, it isn’t a break, it’s still work. It’s a scramble getting us out of the house in the morning on time, I feel I’m constantly rushing and stressed at work, then feel pressured to have ds in bed so I can claw a bit of ‘me time’ before I go to bed … it’s tough going. And I think that’s probably the issue, young children are exhausting and they are hard and they are expensive.

It is easy to get back into teaching after a few years out. You don't have to decide anything now. You are due to go on maternity leave. Enjoy the rest of your time at work before this, get settled into having a baby and a toddler and see how you feel about going back when you get to about next January. If you decide you want a few years out then they will have plenty of time to recruit a permanent member of staff or make your maternity cover a permanent member of staff. I struggled back to work after my second, despite having a very active toddler and a baby who didn't sleep. I was so exhausted that I kept forgetting things. In the end I didn't go back after my third, took a couple of years out and then returned. Initially I have to admit that I had lost a lot of my confidence and was convinced I wouldn't get a job, but I did. Hated the first school and wondered what I was doing it for, then found a school I loved the following academic year.

I had gone part time rather than take a career break as I wouldn’t like to rely on dh financially

I also rent out a house.

you do what is right for you op. Just think carefully - would you be happy just to be a mum? I know for me I love that I have something for myself (my work) and that bit of meaning. I still do most of the work at home but I know I have my career once the children get older and more independent.

Nothing wrong with it at all. You are only early 40s. You have 25 years of working life left! Enjoy life whilst you can. You have future security in income from 2 properties.

I wouldn't do anything right now.
Take the years maternity and revisit a year from now.
I think teaching would be easier to get back into, but after a career break, I'm earning half what I was in 2015. My pension is also pants.
0.6, TTO is a pretty low number of days in work.
If you get the school timetable as soon as it's released, and get DH to block out travel the days you will need to work late, could that work?
TL:DR - don't make a decision yet, and ideally seeing you can make it work.

Congratulations OP! If you can afford to, and DH is on board with it, I would give up for a few years. Could you maybe put the DC in nursery 1-2 days a week and do supply teaching, just to keep your hand in? Or teach at a Kip McGrath (sp?) if you have such a place? In the concept of work/life balance, life is so much more important!

It couldn’t work unfortunately @CatOnTheChair . His travel isn’t that far in advance and it happens when it happens.

@Slimjimtobe i definitely don’t think I’d be unhappy with it. I don’t mind teaching, but since I’m surrounded by kids all day it isn’t the haven of adult conversation and hot drinks that many MN offices seem to be! Equally though I do think I’d need a break of sorts, even if that’s just a day in nursery for them both.

You sound lovely OP! You know there are things more important than money. Take that time off with your DC and enjoy it.