To worry about free speech at universities

[ChristinaXYZ]

Despite the various moves by the government to supposedly protect free speech and normal academic deabte the situation on the ground does not seem to change at all.

In the last week Claire Fox was disinvited from Royal Holloway for a deabte on free speech I believe - incredible as that may seem. Some students want to hear what she had to say and had invited her but got 'strong-armed' out of it by the students' union and then failed by the university admin who should have backed free speech.

And before people say it can't be that bad, Claire Fox's was disinvited after liking a Ricky Gervias joke - going on his social media profile that means millions and millions of us are also not fit to speak to university students!

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/03/22/chilling-truth-cancellation/

Today this:

"Dr John Armstrong, a scholar at King's College London (KCL), applied to carry out a survey of elite athletes and volunteers on whether trans women, who are born male, should compete in women's track and field categories and whether they felt they could express their views.

However, the university's ethics panel rejected his application last week citing equality and diversity concerns, in what has been labelled an attack on academic freedom."

Further in the article it goes on to say:

"Dr Armstrong told The Telegraph: "They appear to be trying to prevent me from using the concept of sex at all. I am not misgendering any individuals, I am just accurately using the terms male and female.

"I’m being blocked from conducting research and it’s impacting upon my academic freedom.

"No serious work has been done by the various federations to try to find out the opinions of people in athletics, both at the grassroots and elite athletes.
"By refusing to allow people to conduct research that doesn’t meet certain activist viewpoints, that undermines the credibility of research in general.""

You can read much more here https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/03/26/transgender-athlete-research-rejected-professor-called-trans/

What it must be like to study and work in this kind of cloistered enviroment with a kind of inquisition checking up on whther you have transgressed I can't imagine. there must be hundreds of little choices staff and students make every day to conform - changing what they say,m what they write, the topics they're prepared to research. All the little chilling-effect ramifications that never make the headlines.

And if you think your family is woke enough for your teens to pass the purity tests when they get to unviersity - you're wrong. You can't feed this monster to pacify it. If wants bigger and bigger sacrifices and keeps changing the rules.

I just wish the governemnt would do more. Much more. And now.

For the past don’t know how many years, those who want to talk about the biological meaning of the sexes have been banned/uninvited from universities.

It’s often mentioned in relation to sports there’s no research into the differences when competing. No wonder if people are blocked from researching this. If there was no difference you would think that research would be encouraged to show the world sex doesn’t matter in sports.

Wasn’t it Edinburgh University where women were spat at by the leader of the Students Association for wanting to watch a film by Matt Walsh?
Kathleen Stock, a clever, thoughtful, measured Philosophy Professor hounded out of her job at Southampton for daring to say sex is real and there are times in life that it’s important to observe those differences.

Freedom of speech also means the freedom to say “I don’t want you to speak here”. Freedom of speech is not the right to an audience and is not the right to access any platform you wish to access - the platform decides whether or not you’re entitled to use them, because that decision is their freedom of speech. In the same vein, I’m entitled to make a sign saying “I like chicken nuggets”, I’m not entitled to attach it to your front door.

We study history and critique various historical sources, even the despots of some of the world's leaders ect to understand, ect yet university discussions today seem to be we want to have this rainbow view of x subjects but then if that's the case, how can true academic discourse happen ?

What moves to protect free speech? Criminalising protests? Lobbying the BBC into taking GL off air for criticising extreme policy?

Can't have it both ways really - this government is not one to promote healthy debate

You don’t think she was disinvited because of her political history? The one where she supported the IRA bombing campaign?

freedom of speech doesn't entitle anyone to speak publicly without consequences the majority of students didn't want to hear the transphobic rhetoric when they likely have trans students attending the university, it's democracy, if those students want to listen to that conversation they can go to another one of her talks outside of the university, i'm sure you'd complain if a trans woman was to go in a give a talk and you'd be happy if the students who wanted to listen to her were as you put it 'strong armed' out of it

Actually the majority of people don't want to hear the femphibic rhetoric which suggests that talking about biological realities is offensive. The biological realities don't go away when misogynistic demand the right for people to pretend they don't exist but hiding them furthers women's oppression. Nevertheless in a world of free speech, TRAs can continue to state that women don't matter. This is not really a matter of free speech, it's a tool of oppression.

Freedom of speech also means the freedom to say “I don’t want you to speak here”.

Say it as much as you want. Freedom of speech doesn't mean you have a right to have what you want acted on.

Freedom of speech is massively misunderstood. She had the freedom to say what she wants, she doesn’t have the freedom to say it where she wants and she isn’t entitled to use any platform if the platform doesn’t want her.

Not that hard to understand.

To do research when comparing the sexes birth sex as well as self iding sex also has to be used to not skew the results.

without using bio sex the argument for either side cannot come to a conclusion.

Freedom of speech is massively misunderstood. She had the freedom to say what she wants, she doesn’t have the freedom to say it where she wants and she isn’t entitled to use any platform if the platform doesn’t want her.

No one is saying anyone should be able to rock up at random. But if a speaker is invited, why should another group veto them? What we have here is feminists being asked to speak, and anti-feminists/TRAs screaming and threatening until the invitation is withdrawn.

the majority of students didn't want to hear the transphobic rhetoric when they likely have trans students attending the university

But when the 'transphobic rhetoric' is simply biological fact and straightforward safeguarding. Yet they won't listen to it, because 'no debate' and they fear having to argue their own position. What then?

You're absolutely right to be worried about this OP. What the actual hell happened to bring about this state of affairs?

You would think the trans community would support all research into TW competing in female sports wouldn’t you?

They keep telling us there is no difference so what are they afraid of?

And absolutely this isn’t transphobic to point out and want to talk about the differences.

In the interests of fairness you would think the community would campaign for open categories and other things. For some reason this isn’t wanted. Instead we are hearing they have been kicked out of sports. When reality is they haven’t been kicked out they can still compete just not against women (stonewall, mermaids and more trans groups are stating this since the IOC made the decision the other day).

The real victims in this who are the females who lost places, sponsorship, funding and more due to the ridiculous idea that there are no differences between the sexes.

YANBU and my personal way of doing something about this state of affairs has been to sign up to the Free Speech Union.
https://freespeechunion.org/

Sussex(Brighton) not Southampton for Stock. I think it is important that the correct Universities are quoted so people can steer their children away when doing UCAS.

I’m not surprised many seem to support these bans. Have you seen the verbal and physical attacks on females who want to talk about their experiences about being female or lesbian?

Al least after these discussions the females can walk away and deal with the abuse online. Hard to do that when you have to stay in a community like a uni

I'm amazed how many people are so concerned about free speech in universities now that people who are saying things they agree with are being de-platformed. Were they all so concerned when people they didn't agree were being de-platformed?

Absolutely. If Unis cannot get basic biology right what else are they gaslighting paying students about?

After the horrific fight with Fallon Fox and Tamikka Brent this should have been when the line was drawn with males competing against females. Not several years later and not when promoting sex blockers for children so they can compete as females.

I’ve always supported free speech even if I don’t always agree with what is being said.

I don’t want to live in an echo chamber. I enjoy a good debate and listening to all sides. It one of the ways you can make an informed choice.

It’s even harder when one side not only doesn’t want to debate they also want silence the other side.

the majority of students didn't want to hear the transphobic rhetoric

Then they could have just not gone to the event. Or did I miss the part where they were being rounded up and forced to attend?

You don’t think she was disinvited because of her political history? The one where she supported the IRA bombing campaign?

That argument rather ceased to be valid when Martin McGuinness shook hands with the Queen.

[clip from the quote in the opening post]:

"...However, the university's ethics panel rejected his application last week citing equality and diversity concerns, in what has been labelled an attack on academic freedom."

I wonder what the ethics panel thinks those two words mean.

Have you read the OP. She was invited. She didn’t turn up unannounced with a loud speaker.

Wrong! That is not how free speech works. You have to be able to apply it to views you find unpalatable. There is need to have free speech if every just talks about the weather.