To worry about free speech at universities

[ChristinaXYZ]

Despite the various moves by the government to supposedly protect free speech and normal academic deabte the situation on the ground does not seem to change at all.

In the last week Claire Fox was disinvited from Royal Holloway for a deabte on free speech I believe - incredible as that may seem. Some students want to hear what she had to say and had invited her but got 'strong-armed' out of it by the students' union and then failed by the university admin who should have backed free speech.

And before people say it can't be that bad, Claire Fox's was disinvited after liking a Ricky Gervias joke - going on his social media profile that means millions and millions of us are also not fit to speak to university students!

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/03/22/chilling-truth-cancellation/

Today this:

"Dr John Armstrong, a scholar at King's College London (KCL), applied to carry out a survey of elite athletes and volunteers on whether trans women, who are born male, should compete in women's track and field categories and whether they felt they could express their views.

However, the university's ethics panel rejected his application last week citing equality and diversity concerns, in what has been labelled an attack on academic freedom."

Further in the article it goes on to say:

"Dr Armstrong told The Telegraph: "They appear to be trying to prevent me from using the concept of sex at all. I am not misgendering any individuals, I am just accurately using the terms male and female.

"I’m being blocked from conducting research and it’s impacting upon my academic freedom.

"No serious work has been done by the various federations to try to find out the opinions of people in athletics, both at the grassroots and elite athletes.
"By refusing to allow people to conduct research that doesn’t meet certain activist viewpoints, that undermines the credibility of research in general.""

You can read much more here https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/03/26/transgender-athlete-research-rejected-professor-called-trans/

What it must be like to study and work in this kind of cloistered enviroment with a kind of inquisition checking up on whther you have transgressed I can't imagine. there must be hundreds of little choices staff and students make every day to conform - changing what they say,m what they write, the topics they're prepared to research. All the little chilling-effect ramifications that never make the headlines.

And if you think your family is woke enough for your teens to pass the purity tests when they get to unviersity - you're wrong. You can't feed this monster to pacify it. If wants bigger and bigger sacrifices and keeps changing the rules.

I just wish the governemnt would do more. Much more. And now.

That was a real low. The poor resposne of the uni to organising a re-screening was terrible too.

That is exactly what free speech is not - well, it is fine to say it, but what is happening at the moment as I am sure you know is more than simply saying it - it is bullying, intimidation, sometimes with physical threats or the threats of having future problems with your degree or your career.

No one has a right to an audience but when there is an audience - someone is invited to speak as Claire Fox was, and then the students issuing the invitation are in their words 'strong-armed' into retracting it surely you can see there is a a huge, huge problem.

That's not what was said - they said it was because of the Ricky Gervais joke. I think what Claire Fox said about the Warringotn bomb was awful. I still would not disinvite her though.

And actually if you think about the implication is of a real moral vacuum in the student body - they object to joke but not to the bomb-justifying? Really? So even if you agree with their right to disinvite her (and I don't) what kind of moral stand are they actually taking and whom holds them, with this power they wield, to account? which ever way you look at the students union at Royal Holloway is demonstrating extremely poor decision making.

I clearly said she was invited by students who wanted to hear her speak - you are the one who does not understand.

Now it has been explained to you carefully - do you think that she should have been disinvited because one lot of students wants to bully those who invited her??

Setting aside you libling the speaker as a transphobe where is your statistic about most students' views? One of the articles I mention in the OP is pointing out that the academic has been prevented from gathering evidence of views and I can't imagine there have been many other studies - so how you have this miraculous access I don't know! Do share your great knowledge ...

You're also out of like with your 'I'm sure you'd complain ..' comment. How the hell would you know what I'd do?? More speaking with no facts eh? And you're bloody well wrong actually - I would support the right of any speaker who was speaking within the terms of the laws we have in this country.

If a transwoman was invited to argue for the participation of transwomen in women's sports (I don't agree with that) I would support the right of the speaker to speak. I would not hold a banner nor protest (though I would defend the right of those that did, provided the protest did not intimidate nor attempt to prevent the meeting going ahead or attempt to prevent a speaker being heard or attempt to defame those attending). I might even go and listen or politely ask a question.

I would just like all speakers to have the same courtesy extended to them.

Have you read the OP? She was disinvited.

She was disinvited. It doesn’t matter why. The people who run the place said they didn’t want her there - that’s their right. Part of wanting freedom of speech is that you have to accept it applies to things you don’t want to hear. You clearly don’t want to recognise that.

How does being disinvited not change the fact she was invited? It literally couldn’t change it more. In fact, it completely reverses it. It’s like saying “the fact she died doesn’t mean I didn’t save her life”, like, it really really really really does change it.

She was disinvited. It doesn’t matter why.

If the pressure had come from men's rights activists rather than trans rights activists, would you still say that?

This is the lamest gotcha ever, have more respect for yourself. Lots of non-lesbians have been de-platformed. Your one-track mindedness is laughable.

The fact that you think it’s only women who are de-platformed proves my point. You’re the real misogynist, and a disgrace.

So no woman can ever be called a cretin in the same way a man can be.

You haven’t comprehended what you’re saying.

Not by those who wanted her to come - not by the student debating society by free choice, but under pressure from bullys. So yes, you are wilfully misreading @ManipulatorPedipulator she had an audience who wanted her to come and still wanted her to come despite the disinvitation, but because of bullys had to disinvite her. There is not eveidence the bullys even represented the wider students in any serious way - who would risk their degree to stand up against them?

But sudent unions don't run the place do they? They are just one part of the university body. So no, it was not the people who run the place it was one noisy group of bullies from the studnet union (who no doubt many in the union would disagree with unless they are all cloned zombies) pushing other students around whilst the 'people who run the place' looked the other way and di nothing about standing up for free-speech which is my point!

I’m not engaging with you until you comprehend what you’re saying by declaring that no woman can ever be called a cretin. You steadfastly refuse to argue in good faith and the wider implications are clearly going over your head.

She wasn’t disinvited by the people who invited her.

She was disinvited by craven fools who caved to pressure from muppets who can’t cope with hearing views that don’t coincide with their own.

Anybody who’s either too fragile or too controlling to cope with views they don’t agree with could have easily stayed away. Instead they sought to control what others get to hear or interact with - including those who don’t agree with Claire Fox.

It’s outrageous in a supposedly mature democracy. And at a university of all places, which serve a function beyond educating their current student cohort and are supposedly seats of learning and research for the benefit of society as a whole.

Just to add that I completely agree with @wasteoffunds that joining the Free Speech Union is a good idea. What I particularly like is that they defend people that they clearly don't agree with but think free speech counts for your intellectual enemies or it does not count at all. Hear, hear!

https://freespeechunion.org/