Is obesity the responsibility of the NHS?

[snookspooks]

I've read a few posts lately where posters say the NHS isn't doing enough to combat obesity. As far as I am aware people are taught from pre-school age upwards about healthy eating and the importance of exercise and a healthy lifestyle. This continues through secondary school. I don't know about in further education but I don't remember any from my own FE days. We have access to NHS information online about healthy lifestyles, and the information is repeated in pregnancy and post-natal days by midwives and health visitors (that was my experience but I appreciate it might not be the same for others). We are given the information and it's up to us as individuals what we do with that information. The idea is we use it to prevent getting obese in the first place.

If people do get obese, through whatever factors, and there are many that contribute to this, is it up to the NHS to fix this or should the onus be on individuals? What happened in countries without an NHS style system?

Cancers are mainly preventable but the NHS provides treatment for those but then we can't fix cancers by ourselves, or heart disease, or strokes, but obesity is something we can treat ourselves. I'm not saying it's easy but it is possible. Of course obesity is linked to those diseases/conditions so it's not straightforward.

Is too little responsibility put on those who are obese?

I don't think it's straightforward and I think it's impossible to give treatment for some partially or completely self-inflicted conditions but not others. It's an ethical nightmare. What do other countries do?

Who said they're starving themselves?

Stop projecting

No in serious illness actually it costs a fortune to keep malnourished people alive.

But how many of these patients are there, compared to those suffering from obesity related diseases? How much money is the nhs spending on diabetes care for starters?

At a population level, it's crystal clear where the issue is.

@3littlebeans

Exercise is very difficult for the extremely obese people in ways many don't even realise. They don't have access to comfortable, technical gym clothing and resort to baggy cotton t shirts and joggies, which increases sweating and chaffing and making working out 10x harder and more uncomfortable.

On my weightloss journey, when I was able to fit into clothing that looked and felt nice, I felt better about myself and Exercise was more comfortable!

It's these small details that add up to make what seems like a simple "eat less move more" scenario much more complicated.

No need for personal abuse, surely?

But this reminds me of a thread a week or so ago where people were talking about how they walk an hour+ to and from work each day, and they couldn’t understand why others wouldn’t do it other than laziness. Never crossed their minds that there might be restrictions caused by working hours, nursery drop offs / school runs and simply not enough time to squeeze a lovely active commute in and fulfil the duties towards family and employer. That’s the reality for many people

Um go to your nearest hospital and have a look in the ward . A lot of poorly people are very very thin.

@TheKeatingFive

I work in the care sector. The amount of money we spend on elderly care keeping people alive, which little to no quality of life, long after they would naturally have passed away is quite astounding really.

Didn't meet many obese people in my travels around Europe and India.
Of course people may have reasons to numb themselves with food.
But the idea that people just can't help themselves is patronising- no one is forcing their hands into the bag of crisps/donuts/sausage rolls or hypnotising them into Greggs for a daily fix.
🍨🍩🍪

I work in the care sector. The amount of money we spend on elderly care keeping people alive, which little to no quality of life, long after they would naturally have passed away is quite astounding really.

Fair enough, but this feels like a totally different issue. Like you say, about the limits of end of life care rather than otherwise healthy people impacting their lives through diet.

Um go to your nearest hospital and have a look in the ward . A lot of poorly people are very very thin.

Very poorly people are usually thin as a result of illness. We're not talking about otherwise healthy people's lives being limited because they eat too little

It must cost billions and billions on thickeners / nutrition drinks , reinserting pegs /Ng where confused people have pulled them out. It's horrendous watching people slowly waste away it looks like concertation camp victims.

I never said it's healthy to be overweight or obese it's not. We do spend a fortune on preventing malnutrition being underweight has it's own problems. Fighting off infections , burns recovery the body uses up a lot of energy when ill. It's healthy to be a normal BMI.

I'm sorry you have health troubles.

But incorporating a little carbs here and there will not make you put on 5st. Maybe helpful to try a food diary? Try and not eat carbs after say 2pm?

I did body building so I used to cut carbs, once I gave up training I put on a good 4st. I've lost about 3st by following keto, I'm missing sugar more than carbs.

We do spend a fortune on preventing malnutrition being underweight has it's own problems.

Sure, but the vast, vast majority of those people are either very old or sick due to serious illnesses. The numbers of people with issues purely because they eat too little is actually very small. Though obviously very distressing for all involved.

Being overweight is normalised in parts of the UK in the way it’s not in some European countries. I am also overweight but not abnormal among friends. I exercise (not enough), eat very healthily (but too much) and am far from sedentary. All the measures mentioned here - shutting fast food shops, taxing ultra processed foods, banning car use etc. - simply don’t apply to me. I have a wealthy person’s weight problem.
But it’s down to me to sort out, not the NHS.

@GerronBuzanDoThaWomwok don't mention donuts! I used to be able to predict my period far better than any app by my craving for jam donuts the day before it arrived. I'd eat the bag of 5 no problem. Then go back for another the day after. And possibly the day after that but I'd share those with dcs. Maybe. I look at them now and like we were told in the 80s: just say no. Not easy at times though. I'm an all or nothing person with donuts.

What's obvious from this thread, as angry as it has made some people, is that our country is in a mess from the top to the bottom and I doubt it will ever be fixed so we can only do what we can do on an individual basis unless you are into campaigning perhaps. I can't comment on other countries but nowhere and no-one for that matter is perfect. Whatever perfect means.

I’ve not read the whole thread but I really think there should be a push for home economics in schools where kids are taught how to cook with cheap but healthy ingredients, manage budgets and finances and run a household. The government then needs to heavily tax sugary foods and highly processed foods and in return subsidise the cost of healthy food. It’s not something that is going to be a quick fix by any means but that would be a start.

The choice whether to have a car or not is one that has been taken away from many people and it is a necessity they cannot do without.

Not many families can afford to have a parent at home all day taking care of children who go to the school at the bottom of the road. Parents have tight schedules to get to work then back home again at night, they don't have the time to walk to their kids school(s) and nursery which could be miles away in a different directions.

Supermarkets or shopping is in retail centres and generally need a car to access, the corner shop doesn't have the range and prices are too high.

People walk for pleasure when they have time, but time is very scarce now especially in the working week.

I would like you to tell me op how I should take more personal responsibility for my weight

I am paying for private therapies.

I eat healthily under the hospital dietician.

Please tell me what more I should do.

The UK is slowly heading in the direction of the US in terms of easy access to processed foods, carbs and sugar - we're not as bad for obesity yet, but we will be. The difference is that we have socialised medicine and as such, obesity becomes everyone's problem rather than people having to fund their own lack of self control.

Of course there are a few exceptions, but the majority of obesity is a choice. The NHS does encourage people to eat better and try to lose weight, but it's too easy to ignore the advice. Before anyone jumps down my throat about how I'm ignorant and your situation is special, I'm not talking to you - I'm talking to the people reading who know they don't do enough to keep themselves healthy.

If obesity was something we could fix by ourselves no one would be obese

This is completely and utterly untrue. The vast majority have the means to do it, they just don't want to do it enough. It's far easier not to (and then find every excuse under the sun as to why it isn't their fault)

Don’t be angry because the OP is right - a lot of cancers ARE preventable.
Tot up how many are due to smoking, obesity, lifestyle and drinking and you'll find it’s an astonishingly high number.
Yours may not have been, but if you read the post carefully you’ll see it says ‘mainly’ and not ‘all’ - an important difference.

As for you alluding to obesity being completely unavoidable in a lot of cases - what a load of nonsense. Just don’t eat as much, and if you struggle with that then get up and do more (I’m on steroids that cause weight gain, but I’ve cut my intake and upped activity levels to compensate)

This is interesting. How Finland tackled their obesity issues.

https://www.theguardian.com/befit/story/0,15652,1385645,00.html

looks like it takes a LOT of intervention to make a difference

Sorry, my post sent before I’d finish - the last sentence was going to be that 99 times out of 100 it’s down to people eating shite and sitting on the sofa.
Eat healthier (which can be as easy as junk) and go for a walk / run / other activity that suits your mobility level.

Obesity is mostly an issue of our own creation, fuelled by apologists who claim it isn’t.

@NoTouch

And that's the problem.

I don't drive yet I have a family and a career.

Society needs to be restructured. We need shorter working hours, better cycling infrastructure and more public transport.

We also need to massively restrict car use.

Other places do all that, why not here?

The issue is that issues like obesity and addiction, you know the ones people frequently say don't "deserve treatment" are symptoms of underlying issues, trauma, childhood neglect etc. if we were better at catching these things earlier or preventing them, work like sure start centres, youth projects, mental health services then we could mitigate a lot of the issues we see later. But people don't want to hear this.

Also if you don't deserve help with obesity do you deserve help if you break your leg rock climbing?

@Deathbyfluffy I am on steroids. I can't exercise.

What do you suggest I do?