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Original poster

Is obesity the responsibility of the NHS?

531 replies

snookspooks · 26/03/2023 12:54

I've read a few posts lately where posters say the NHS isn't doing enough to combat obesity. As far as I am aware people are taught from pre-school age upwards about healthy eating and the importance of exercise and a healthy lifestyle. This continues through secondary school. I don't know about in further education but I don't remember any from my own FE days. We have access to NHS information online about healthy lifestyles, and the information is repeated in pregnancy and post-natal days by midwives and health visitors (that was my experience but I appreciate it might not be the same for others). We are given the information and it's up to us as individuals what we do with that information. The idea is we use it to prevent getting obese in the first place.

If people do get obese, through whatever factors, and there are many that contribute to this, is it up to the NHS to fix this or should the onus be on individuals? What happened in countries without an NHS style system?

Cancers are mainly preventable but the NHS provides treatment for those but then we can't fix cancers by ourselves, or heart disease, or strokes, but obesity is something we can treat ourselves. I'm not saying it's easy but it is possible. Of course obesity is linked to those diseases/conditions so it's not straightforward.

Is too little responsibility put on those who are obese?

I don't think it's straightforward and I think it's impossible to give treatment for some partially or completely self-inflicted conditions but not others. It's an ethical nightmare. What do other countries do?

OP posts:
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DrMarciaFieldstone · 01/04/2023 09:37

No.

theGooHasGone · 01/04/2023 21:47

You’re missing the point about why they don’t work. The video I posted explains well.

It's interesting, but it's just one opinion of many on the underlying mental factors around weight loss. Many people in the world have successfully lost weight and kept it off, whether that means they had to reset their "set point" or not. It's absolutely fine to disagree about this.

And if your weight loss is only recent, I hope you’re in the small minority who do keep it off. I imagine most of us who are trying to tell you it doesn’t work long term have been exactly where you have with your “I’ve lost weight so anyone can” way of thinking.

Thank you for the kind wishes. I've been at my current weight for over a year and I'm happier than I've been in a very long time. I'm never going back.

I made a lot of excuses for why I couldn't lose weight in the past, kept telling myself I was happy being overweight, it didn't matter, the world was ignorant etc. I was lying to myself, though.

UndertheCedartree · 01/04/2023 22:09

anunlikelyseahorse · 27/03/2023 00:15

It's part of the problem, but not the only reason. Obesity is multi faceted and complex.
"30-50% of cancer is preventable" well that means 70-50% of cancers aren't. And given WHOs track record, I take their advice with a pinch of salt. Also 20% is a huge discrepancy.
In many cancer cases, we don't fully understand why a cell mutates. Genes are certainly a factor and then given the right environmental factors, whoosh cell mutations away, but what we don't know is why that faulty gene develops and gets passed on in the first place...if we could fully understand the cause it would be easier to find the cure.

To answer your question OP, what we need is more research into obesity, 'willpower' has pretty much been debunked as a load of religious pious, virtuous bollocks. But if one can blame it on 'lack of virtue' then it's not contagious, and therefore not dangerous, the sociology of health is fascinating, I'm sure it won't be long before covid enters the syllabus, it's also a good get out clause for not spending money on research, blame the person on lack of will power and the jobs a goodun!
So, so much about the human psyche remains a mystery, and until we understand more about our physiological, psychological and sociological function of our brain we'll never fully understand the link between physical and psychological health. In the meantime we continue to treat the illness brought about by obesity, so yes if obesity could be tackled, the NHS would be better off, but that is the same with most preventive illnesses (alcohol, drugs, STIs) it's a bit like saying could education reduce our prison population,and yes it could, but it requires a ton of investment at the beginning of life, instead we spend money and resources on fighting the fires instead of preventing the fires in the first place. The sad thing is labour tried really hard to prevent the fires by introducing sure start and other community services, and then the conservatives pulled the plug on it, it wasn't long enough to see the effects take hold. And therein lies a biggest issue of all, politicians only ever look at the short term goals, they don't take the longer view, that's why we're in the mess we're in (yes okay it's a bit more nuanced and complex than that, but ultimately politicians need to look at the longer goal, and regardless of which party they are in, they need to look at society as a whole. An educated working population should always be the long term goal, and that is tackled at grass roots).

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The Tories closing all the children's centres was absolutely disgraceful.

UndertheCedartree · 01/04/2023 22:16

Londongal123 · 29/03/2023 12:00

Obesity 100% starts from parents. The lack of knowledge and understanding about what and how to feed children is what's causing the issue. The constant snacking, massive portion sizes, sugar and quality of food is detrimental to these children who then have to fight the battle for their entire adulthood because of shitty parenting mistakes. It's no coincidence that obesity is higher in less educated parts of the country. As a country we need way more education around what is acceptable nutrition for our children - and maybe the NHS should help with that.

I grew up eating healthily always normal weight, went into adulthood the same. Then I was put on medication that made me gain weight...so no, it doesn't always start with parents.

BeretRaspberry · 01/04/2023 22:25

It's interesting, but it's just one opinion of many on the underlying mental factors around weight loss. Many people in the world have successfully lost weight and kept it off, whether that means they had to reset their "set point" or not. It's absolutely fine to disagree about this.

The video I posted shows it’s (regain) nothing to do with mental factors, it’s basic physical biology. It’s survival.

Losing weight can be relatively easy, particularly the first time you do it. That’s why I said most of us have probably been where you are. One year is an extremely short period of time in terms of keeping it off though, but as I say, I do hope you keep it off long term. It’s much easier to live life as a slimmer person.

DoorWasAJar · 18/05/2023 14:56

Nimbostratus100 · 26/03/2023 12:57

I think banning margarine and low quality vegetable oils would go a long way to tackling obesity, or at least raising tax sky high on them, and on processed food.

These things are freely available children are eating them and no, I dont think the information on how badly they mess up insulin metabolism is widely publicised enough

Not the NHS, but certainly a wider government responsibility

But then lard and butter will get more expensive 😭

Did you read the writings of Gandhi? He was vegetarian but before he died, he wrote at length how vegetable oils are harming health, and ghee was the better product, how VO is not conducive to life.

There’s a lot of research about this but people have been brainwashed by the ‘animal fat is bad’ conspiracy. VO only took off due to the war, and the low price it had. I was brainwashed too but I’m glad I found animal fats again.

There’s also research re: health of vegans and vegetarians, and many former followers of these diets are coming out about how their health was destroyed. The research shows than even mental health is poorer in vegetarians and vegans.

The group consuming more vegetable oil had a 62% higher rate of death during the seven-year study compared to the group eating less vegetable oil.

HangerLaneGyratorySystem · 21/05/2023 18:28

Lard and butter going up?! But what will us fat bastards put in our sandwiches?!

Original poster
snookspooks · 21/05/2023 23:07

I hope butter doesn't go up anymore, it's £2.50 a block already!

OP posts:
user1497207191 · 21/05/2023 23:12

SouthCountryGirl · 26/03/2023 13:08

Where did the OP say all? They're right - some cancers are preventable

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The op said “mainly preventable” which is absolute bollocks. The majority aren’t!

Howpo · 22/05/2023 07:37

snookspooks · 29/03/2023 11:27

So if diets don't work should overweight and obese people just not bother to do anything about their weight because there's no point?

More needs to happen to stop people getting fat in the first place. Individually everyone needs to take responsibility for that, and nationally the government, food manufacturers, the NHS, schools etc. it's a fine balance I think between a responsible government and a nanny state and we all have choices to a greater or lesser extent. Defensiveness and blaming various things isn't the answer. Action not excuses. And I mean that individually and from the government and food manufacturers and anyone else who has the power the effect change.

Its a bit like alcoholism, once you get into that spiral its very hard to get out, more, far more, needs to be done to stop people becoming fat & that means regulation, not industry guide lines.

We in the UK seem to have a "let the market decide" attitude to health, which as we humans have a tendency to be lazy, means we have fast foods, cheap processed ones and unbelievable numbers of ready meals... defended of course by "we all lead busy lifestyles" no you don't, you're just too lazy & take the easy way out and then when you weigh 20 stone, blame it on medical and MH.... yeah by then you probably have got these issues.

Ladykryptonite · 22/05/2023 08:06

It's all our responsibilities to stay as fit and healthy as we can, if we can, for as long as we can

user1497207191 · 22/05/2023 11:17

Ladykryptonite · 22/05/2023 08:06

It's all our responsibilities to stay as fit and healthy as we can, if we can, for as long as we can

Absolutely agree. We can't keep blaming everyone else for our own decisions and actions entirely within our own control.

Yes, some people (a minority) have underlying medical/mental issues, but the vast majority need to take more responsibility for themselves, make healthy choices, etc., rather than relying on the NHS to fix them.

NHS resources should be prioritised for those who've got issued through no fault of their own, i.e. most cancers, genetic health problems, accidents, etc.

Quisquam · 22/05/2023 12:07

Imo, people whose lives are miserable self medicate with drugs of one kind or another.

PP who bleat on about calories In calories out, or who stealth boast about how they keep slim, presumably wouldn’t take this holier than thou attitude to people with depression on anti depressants? Do they say to them

”Yes, you are depressed about x,y and z; but I am stressed with my job, whatever and don’t have depression, so you stop taking the anti depressants because I don’t need them! “

Everybody’s levels of coping and resilience are different and while you could put two people in the same stressful environment, you might find one could cope fine while the other is suicidal. It’s no use, blaming the suicidal one for being weak and saying they just need to be strong!

Meadowland · 23/05/2023 22:42

Completely agree with @ladykryptonite. Blaming everyone but ourselves for what we eat is a nonsense.
I would love nothing more than to eat a family size bag of crisps and several bars of chocolate right now. It's just as hard for me as for anyone else, but I know it's my responsibility, and mine alone, to resist.

Summertiempo · 01/08/2023 19:50

Eloradannin2nd · 26/03/2023 13:38

When you ultimately have no choice to buy the value sausages over the finest ones, yes, social class is a factor. However, it’s not as easy as dismissing it as personal choice.
I have been completely skint and had to buy the beige food because that was all I could afford.
thankfully now I am in a much better position financially , I cook 95% of family meals from scratch and make sure that they are healthy.

Your comment is very simplistic and the generalisation isn’t really true.

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Not everyone has time to cook from scratch. Not after a long, tiring work day and commute

JenniferBooth · 01/08/2023 21:36

It is at least partly the responsibility of the NHS when they were screaming for full lockdown and for all the gyms to shut

Brumbies · 03/08/2023 18:19

Cooking from scratch doesn't need to take long, pan full of pasta, meanwhile sauté some mushrooms, tomatoes, anything else you fancy. 10 mins tops!
People can be just lazy

Olderandolder · 03/08/2023 18:23

NHS wants to grow and justify ever more funds.

So it needs to pull ever more things into its net.

SunflowerSunflower · 03/08/2023 18:35

Lcb123 · 26/03/2023 13:00
Obesity could be reduced by highly processed foods being subject to high tax. With that tax used to significantly reduce price of healthy food. A lot of NHS advice on diet and exercise is based on very limited evidence

I am just reading Ultra Processed People and I agree. UPFs have a lot to answer for. They should come with a warning too. It’s not the whole answer and the reasons some of us end up living with overweight are massively complex, but the marketing of and easy access to UPF is a big one. I’d recommend the book. Dense but very informative.

SunflowerSunflower · 03/08/2023 18:43

·Olderandolder Today 18:23
NHS wants to grow and justify ever more funds.
**
So it needs to pull ever more things into its net.

Actually, I had the NHS over for lunch the other day. It said it’s looking to get out of the health game and get into hospitality. It just needs to OK its plans with its partner. Oh. It says to say ‘hi’ by the way.

Olderandolder - I think you may have misunderstood how the NHS is organised.

ToWhitToWhoo · 03/08/2023 19:04

Cancers are not 'mainly preventable'. About one-third of cancers may be attributable to lifestyle factors (which does not always mean that each case could be prevented by the individual) - so a large minority but not a majority.

I find the idea that healthcare should be rationed or charged by 'deservingness' and whether an illness can be seen as 'self-inflicted' utterly terrifying. Healthcare is a human right, not a reward. And one of the biggest lifestyle factors in illness is POVERTY. Poor people have a lot more illness and lower life expectancy than richer people. And, as they are the people least likely to be able to afford any form of private healthcare, the NHS should not be denying them healthcare!!!

And is it only obesity-related illnesses that should be seen as the consequence of personal 'sin' and undeserving of medical help? Should someone who regularly goes out in the midday sun without sun-cream be denied or charged for their treatment for their melanoma? Should people who take jobs where they have to do shift-work (known to be a risk factor for reduced immunity to many illnesses) be denied healthcare? What about a person who gets osteoporosis as a result of under-eating? One who gets cervical cancer through neglecting to have smear tests? One who gets whooping cough or measles or a bad case of Covid through not staying up-to-date with their vaccinations? One who is injured in a car accident through careless driving? Where does it all end????

ToWhitToWhoo · 03/08/2023 19:06

Quisquam · 22/05/2023 12:07

Imo, people whose lives are miserable self medicate with drugs of one kind or another.

PP who bleat on about calories In calories out, or who stealth boast about how they keep slim, presumably wouldn’t take this holier than thou attitude to people with depression on anti depressants? Do they say to them

”Yes, you are depressed about x,y and z; but I am stressed with my job, whatever and don’t have depression, so you stop taking the anti depressants because I don’t need them! “

Everybody’s levels of coping and resilience are different and while you could put two people in the same stressful environment, you might find one could cope fine while the other is suicidal. It’s no use, blaming the suicidal one for being weak and saying they just need to be strong!

Unfortunately, there are some people who do exactly that, with regard to those who take medication for mental health problems.

Beneficialchampion2 · 03/08/2023 19:20

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

ToWhitToWhoo · 03/08/2023 23:05

What happened in countries without an NHS style system?

There are very few developed countries nowadays without some form of universal healthcare. It may not be administered in exactly the same way as the NHS; but so far as I know, the only developed country without universal healthcare is the USA; and even there, Medicaid, Medicare and workplace insurance ensure some form of healthcare for the majority.

In countries and at times without universal healthcare, eligibility for healthcare generally depends on financial considerations- either personal wealth or availability of insurance, not on 'deservingness' and whether your ailments are seen as 'self-inflicted'. In any case, life expectancy is significantly lower in such times and places.

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