Zero tolerance schools and slant techniques for send - good, okay or terrible

[Zerotolerancetofun]

Dd is starting secondary next year. The school has a zero tolerance behaviour policy so very strict about everything (uniform, homework, behaviour etc). They are also bringing in this new teaching technique called slant that the kids are meant to follow - about how they sit/pay attention/look at the teachers - it sounds very Draconian.

Dd has ASD and significant levels of anxiety and I am concerned how this environment will work for her. I think she will be terrified of making a mistake and getting detention for minor mistakes, but of course if this approach stops bullying etc then that is a good thing for her.

I'd love to know how other people's DC have got on with this type of school. Particularly if they have ASD, but also NT children too.

I think at the Michaela school and others of that ilk you would get a detention for forgetting your pen, or not concentrating properly etc. No second or third chances.
A zero tolerance/excuses environment.

I would hate to work in an environment like that and my children would hate to be taught in an environment like that.

Lots of schools manage to have excellent behaviour without these draconian rules.

My DS went to a school where a new head had started the year before. The head wanted to crack down on poor behaviour and generally tighten the ship.

All students were issued with strike cards for uniform and equipment. DS has SEN and allowances were made for him and he rarely had a strike even when others would have.

Ultimately it didn’t work out but they did, after discussions with the SENCO, make allowances.

Please don't do this to her. I know of someone whose Dd went to a school like this (an academy in London) and it made her feel suicidal. She's had so much CAMHS input and is now diagnosed with depression because of her fear of the escalating sanctions the school has put her way for silly things (like looking at the clock when the teacher was talking). She knows another parent at the school whose child has adhd and he's now refusing to come into school every morning because of the trouble he gets into for daring to have adhd. It's disgusting. I'm surprised the school are allowed to get away with it.

Why are children terrified of detentions? I didn't want to get detention at school, but still did on a few occasions, it wasn't the end of the world because I was generally a conscientious hard-working pupil.

a detention is annoying - constant detentions is very repressive- some children get an hour a day, over and over again, and for minor things

@Florenz my DD has ASD and anxiety and finds being in school at all challenging. The idea of having to stay in school any longer than necessary would terrify her as would the idea that she was in so much trouble.

I notice posters are presenting this situation as a choice. Most secondaries are based on a catchment area, the school you get allocated is the one thats closest to you, theres very little choice

Perhaps its different in different areas?

Detentions aren't just a one-off at the school I've mentioned. They're designed like a lunchtime detention or after school detention, or lunchtime and after school detention for just that day or a set number of days or even the week. If things don't improve, it escalates to internal exclusion and if things then don't improve, it's a fixed term exclusion with zero negotiation. Picture a neurodiverse child in a setting like that- where they can't control how they'll react- and it's a recipe for lifelong low self-esteem, achievement and poor mental health. Add the usual teenage thing of wanting to fit in with others around you, them labelling your as a trouble maker, etc. and you're done for!

In very rural areas there isn't a realistic choice.

In towns and cities there are a number of options - in reality that doesn't necessarily mean parents get to choose - where there are 'sink' schools it is the 'good' schools that can set policies to get the intake they want.

We are lucky to be in a London Borough where all the secondaries are at least 'Good' (not that OFSTED ratings are necessarily an indication of what your specific child needs), so on the whole parents get a degree of choice. DD's school is amazing in meeting her needs, but was our second choice, for example.

If a primary child has an EHCP, their parents can pick any school in/out of the borough that they think will meet their child's needs. It will need approval by the borough's SEND team though. But even then, parents can take the LA to tribunal and insist on their named setting if they have spaces and agree they can meet the child's needs.

To go back to the OP - I think 'zero tolerance' and 'reasonable adjustments' are fundamentally different in ethos.

If the rules in 'zero tolerance' meet your child's specific needs then it can work for them. Many (the majority?) of children with SEN will be unable to conform and will always be the 'problem' pupil and outsider, compared to a school that works with diversity instead of making it a 'problem'.

How are these children who can't cope with an orderly environment going to cope when they leave school and start work?

Why should a child with an ehcp have to hunt down a school that doesnt use SLANT and doesnt do zero tolerance and then be educated outside their community. They should be given reasonable adjustments Especially as schools change tact all the time. My sons school didnt use SLANT when he joined. Then it did for about 18 months with zero tolerance and now it doesnt use Slant and operates 1 warning then you're in internal exclusion rather than the previous zero warning. Friends at other secondaries say their behaviour policies change over time too.

Unless they work in the army, no one is ever going to treat them like that

It is my biggest concern for DD. It keeps me awake at night, and other parents of children with SEN I know.

However, school is an important stepping stone for learning those skills in a constructive rather than punitive way.

There's more variety in the workplace, so they may be able to find something that suits them, in addition many workplaces are inclusive to disabilities and this is improving all the time.

I wouldn't really say SLANT schools are anything like a normal working environment.

How often does your boss tell you to sit up straighter? Mine was always doing so in a SLANT school ( I ignored him)

How often in working life are you required to stand up straight in a perfect line with all your colleagues, with your hand held straight up vertically in the air for 20 minutes without moving?

They are supposed to swivel round and stare at every child who says anything,

I world have hated that SO much, and would never have chosen to answer a question in a lesson again.

'Keeps me awake at night' = terrifies me. I cling on to the belief that brains can refigure themselves to an amazing degree, and I see that with DD.

She is an amazing person, after such an awful start in life is intelligent, questioning, caring, and ethical. She cares about others and about the world. She can extrapolate from basic principles and her own experience to others and general principles. She is loving, thoughtful and generous.

She is going to struggle to find a place in the wider world that appreciates her good qualities and accepts her needs.

Thankfully, while she is in the education system she has the right to have her needs met, and in having them met is developing the capacity to function in a less caring environment.

My boss wouldn't have to tell me to sit up straighter because I don't spend the working day slouching, rocking back on my chair, passing notes to colleagues, throwing paper aeroplanes or any number of things that kids will do in school if they're allowed to get away with it.

Why should a kid who would benefit from an ordered working environment have to hunt down a SLANT school?

This is where the education system has gone wrong. It shouldn't be about tailoring to each child's individual needs. Because once they leave school, they'll find out the world doesn't work like that, employers will expect you to get on with your job the same as everyone else does. Schools should be about what works best for the majority of pupils instead of making constant exceptions that achieve nothing in the long run. "A rising tide lifts all boats".

It is definitely true that it actually suits a lot of anxious children. We have very clear and strict rules (enforced very kindly) which has led to excellent behaviour - I am overwhelmed by applications for transfers from other schools for anxious / school refusing children who need a quiet and predictable environment.

They can have an ordered work environment without SLANT. It isnt binary. SLANT and zero tolerance or disorder. The children are still expected to sit nicely, pay attention and be respectful or they go to the exclusion room. There is just a bigger variety of sat nicely positions and paying attention can be not moving your head to watch, just listening intently.

What would you have done having sought out my sons school for its SLANT and zero tolerance policy which they ditched because it wasnt working and they seem to feel it is calmer and more orderded now? Would you leave because it wasnt SLANT even though it was calmer?

And employers legally have to make reasonable adjustments. If someone has a lazy eye they cant be sacked for looking the wrong way. People get special chairs, foot rests - all sorts.

Once a child leaves school there are a huge variety of paths to take, and they can look for one that meets their strengths and needs. School shouldn't be a 'one size fits all' because they are the one option for all children whatever their needs.

When I look for a job, for example, I am very clear about my need for flexibility for family commitments. There are employers who are happy to provide that flexibility, in return for my flexibility around hours/locations that fit with my commitments (single parent, have close and involved grand parents for planned situations, need flexibility for emergencies where only Mum will do). I am willing to sacrifice salary to find the right employer.

There are lots of employers who would not be able to accommodate my needs, and I don't work for them. Happily, there are enough that do accommodate my needs.

School is universal, so should accommodate the full range of needs associated with that.

I’m a teacher and parent of three. There is absolutely no way I would ever teach in or send my kids to a school like this. The curriculum also tends to be very rigid and lacking in any nuance. It’s a terrible import from the US and more akin to prison than school. It’s disingenuous in that its advocates claim it’s necessary in deprived areas but it’s utterly punitive and joyless. Find another school.