AIBU to not want ofstead abolished?

[Applepiesmum]

please bare with I don’t have a school aged child yet

however it’s the only criteria to assess schools against and as a parent the first thing I check when looking at a school if I should move to an area

i understand headteachers might be under pressure to perform but so are all public sector workers Doctors and nurses assessed and judged on performance by patients / students

am I the only person who is thinking like this

It’s useful to have some up to date info!

Thats exactly what people are saying though, isn't it.

No info is up to date for very long

And a lot of stuff written in this thread about ofsted might not be "up to date", but it was up to date when it happened, and ofsted moves the goal posts constantly, so anything that is "up to date" now might well be out of date by next month

Other sectors do not have the same scrutiny. It’s madness what the NHS gets away with and PALs is a complete waste of time.

Up until fairly recently pre covid the only thing an ofsted grade told you was the cost of the houses in the area. Poor areas were 5 times more likely to have an ri or inadequate grade. I'm not sure if more recent analysis has been done . They do not take into account the background of the area ( don't care what they say). Our school has lots of single parent families where the only parent is mum, trust for most men is low, so ofsted send in a team of only middle aged white men.....

I’m happy with the school - both my kids have done well there (although I know of other parents who have not had such a positive experience).

But the Ofsted rating is meaningless - there has been a change in the headteacher in the last 5 years who has bought in different approaches, many of the teachers have changed and there have been changes to the inspection framework. And 13 years is a hell of a long time - what stays the same for that long? Even if it were to be judged outstanding tomorrow, there would be different things that got it there.

@Teddypoops yes I agree to an extent that different things will get them to outstanding now.

I suppose it's because my kids have always done extremely well and been happy in these schools. I would never doubt they had my child's best interests at heart at either school and I trust them implicitly.

Ofsted very often have an agenda- in the last several years they've been used to enforce the government's agenda of academisation. If a school is a stand alone academy, or LA, they're very likely to be given a grade that means they can't resist being put in a MAT. Meanwhile, MAT schools with serious problems slide through.

Or that's how it seems locally.

Also, the burden the current framework puts on small primaries is insane- it's not fit for purpose.

There need to be some really big shake ups in education soon, or there won't be any teachers left.

We know that Gillian Keegan is in negotiations with the teaching unions and that the discussions involve workload. Binning Ofsted grades would be an easy workload win for her, particularly as the Treasury is unlikely to give her any joy on the money front.

Sorry but some of the replies are a bit ridiculous in their attempts to discredit Ofsted. Yes it’s not working well in its current form and needs reform, primarily in how often inspections are done as a decade is too long.

However, the multiple posts claiming all Outstanding schools are actually poor damage the credibility of the arguments and smack of bitterness or an attempt to make parents questions all Ofsted findings.

As an aside, sometimes I feel there are a loud minority of teachers on Mumsnet who are a bit cult like and don’t realise how they come across to parents once they’ve kicked off and back each other up. I think the more rational teachers probably stay out of it so it skews the message.

I genuinely believe parents on the whole want what’s best for their children and part of that involves having happy teachers. They want what’s best for all.

Nevertheless, schools do need to be monitored and teachers assessed. I’m certain most teachers support assessment done in a fair way.

It needs reform but let’s not get extreme. For example the PP who equated an outstanding school with police tape and stabbings the day after the inspection. As if on inspection day a school managed to convince inspectors after 24hrs of tarting up the place that it was like the set of the Waltons and went back to being like something out of an NWA video as soon as they left. It just makes people side-eye and think they have an agenda. It’s not helpful.

You need to find some criteria other than the OFSTED report for deciding where your child goes to school. Some schools have been inspected so infrequently in recent years that a child could go through their entire school career without the school ever being inspected. How much weight could you put on an OFSTED report from eight years ago?

You obviously don’t from 8 years ago. 8 months ago, yes. You can ask about progress on what the school needs to do better. There’s always something.

@Endlesssummer2022
I agree with you. Some of the posts are clearly untrue and frankly ridiculous.

Im also mystified why men cannot inspect a school. They don’t meet the parents. Inspectors are often retired heads. Of course they understand the data a school presents but that doesn’t excuse poor teaching and poor leadership. I agree poorer areas do find it more difficult to recruit the best teachers. Teachers, by and large, prefer well run schools. So get slt right and you get great teachers. Then everyone pulls together and no one fears ofsted.

Personal experience here...
Schools are often toxic places with or without Ofsted looming.

how can it be a "ridiculous attempt to discredit"

which bit do you think is an exaggeration?

A child spent weeks in hospital and lost a lung to a stab injury.

It isn't a matter of opinion, it isn't " o actually, in my opinion it was only a rib"

it was a lung.

It was the most violent school I have ever been in.

Personally, I faced a machete once and a knife more than once- by the way the POLICE definition of the implement used in that particular incident was "machete"- so it was probably a machete- it isn't a case of " o well, in my opinion, it was probably a butterknife" - no- it was a machete.

And a real or replica gun, I don't know which it was, and the police confirmed in that incident that it was impossible to know, and the boy wielding it was later shot dead by someone else, and DEAD is not a matter of opinion either not " o you are exaggerating, it was only a long sleep"

And myriads of lesser incidents, including parents bringing in weaponised dogs, razor blades, etc

And yes, ofsted gave the school "outstanding" - or do you think that is an exaggeration too? NO, it was the grade issued - everything was covered up

Within the next year a huge number of staff had left, because ofsted had been our last hope, and they let us all down so badly

I had to leave with diagnosed PTSD - that is a fact, that my medical record states and that is not a matter of opinion either.

So basically, F of with your claims that my account is "ridiculous" or "extreme" when it is simply a factual account, and as to "bitterness" why wouldn't I be bitter when all ofsted did was make a terrible situation worse - and in my experience all ofsted ever do is make any situation worse

and the specific stabbing I referred to was 6 months after the inspection, not the following day

You are so smug and ignorant, and know so absolutely nothing

My child is in reception. I was able to be very selective of her school as she's adopted. I chose an Ofsted outstanding school and don't regret it at all. Her teachers are incredible. She's progressing fantastically and very content emotionally. She has lots of little friends and lots of the older kids and especially her Y6 buddy are really nurturing to her.

I went with gut instinct mostly. At the end of the day when I visited I witnessed good quality teaching and a lovely, tightknit community where the kids were kind, responsible and respectful. I knew that's what I wanted for my dd.

I agree that the inspection system needs an overhaul. It's too much box ticking and no system that causes so much stress is going to be particularly good at affecting genuine improvement. However, I think people saying that the reports have no merit or real reflection on the school are just a bit bitter and deluded tbh. I don't know the system inside out but I think it's probably very difficult to score 'outstanding' without genuinely knowing what you're doing and likewise to score inadequate without having some areas of significant failure. I do think as well that even a stuffy Ofsted inspector who's ticking boxes can probably tell fairly quickly whether a learning environment is a positive one and will take this into account in their inspection

At the end of the day there does need to be some sort of monitoring system. I agree that it shouldn't be so draconian and that a more continuous monitoring system would work better (and funding to make the desired change actually possible) I think it's a bit ridiculous though to say that the current inspection system isn't beneficial or informative. Of course it is but it's just one snapshot of the school. Parent and community reports and seeing the school first hand are obviously also important.

In fact @Endlesssummer2022 why dont you explain what your personal investment in ofsted is

I also think parents need to know and understand that school managers, particularly in MATS, are not necessarily teachers themselves, so saying an ofsted inspector is an ex-head does not mean they have any experience at all in teaching - more in corporate branding, so might well have gone from being a useless, ofsted obsesses, kowtowing head, to inspector without ever being any good at either.

My mum worked for OFSTED years ago as admin. She says the inspectors only see the school for a few days and in her opinion there was no way they could know a school in that time. I'm now a parent and take these reports with a pinch of salt.

YANBU

Haven't read the whole thread, but a lot of these complaints can apply to just about any testing measure. GCSE grades are based on how well you happen to do in one or two exams, and don't take into account that you're feeling under the weather that day or your dog just died. They are also a terrible guage of how good you are at a subject, merely demonstrating that you can follow the arbitrary exam answer structure. Should employers and universities disregard GCSE grades for these sort of reasons?

Like it or not we need a simplified way of grading people and organisations like schools, and it's never going to give a fully accurate view of capability.

Katherine Brabalsingh said on tv that parents KNOW what the good schools are without looking at Ofsted stuff - which ime is true. Also Ofsted can be years out of date so is not necessarily much help.

Ofsted inspections are very strange.

It's unbelievable that a handful of staff can ask to speak to an inspector privately to raise concerns about safeguarding procedures within their school and to highlight failures that cause concern for the final report to then have a paragraph praising the outstanding safeguarding.

Unfortunately this unbelievable situation happened.
How or why I don't know but I am another person that was working in a school that thought the, long overdue, inspection would bring about positive change.
How wrong I was.

The school received a fantastic grade and I've no doubt about the teaching standards and many other fantastic things about the school and the staff but the safeguarding was shocking and the Head a liability.

Can't say if its still the case as I left.
Couldn't face waiting for something terrible to happen.

A lot of primary schools are getting marked down on their curriculum currently. This is because one teacher is potentially leading 4 or 5 subjects. They can’t possibly lead them to the level of a head of department in a secondary school, but the framework doesn’t differentiate between the two.
Going on about safeguarding is a nonsense too. If they cared about that schools wouldn’t be left unchecked for 15 years! This should be checked far more regularly, if they fail in this, they should given a timescale to improve ( with clear support in place)and then checked back in on.
Currently the system is unsupportive and I don’t understand how anyone thinks that is a way to ensure all schools are good enough for our children, which surely should be the aim of any inspection regime .

I chose a school for my son that was classed as adequate. I went off how the school receptionist another the phone, the way the head runs a football club after school on Tuesdays, the pastoral care of the children, the forest school and road safety awareness lessons on bikes. Just all of the additional love and effort the teachers put into the children.

I’m a governor at a school with 3 times the national average of pupil premium, high SEN/EAL rates, children on protection and just out of care - it’s not a leafy demographic.

Ofsted inspection last year and the school maintained its good rating - because it is a good school. The inspector was female. That doesn’t fit what you just said. That good rating will make no difference to house prices as there is a lot of social housing.

My experience of that school is the attitude of the HT was it is just another day. Of course we knew one was due and I’m sure the staff were apprehensive but the HT is of the opinion no warning should be given (as now) as that’s the fairest reflection of the school. There is low turnover of staff, good culture, very good teaching.

As noted earlier (by a teacher), if the school follows good practice day to day why is there such concern and stress over something that happens v infrequently currently.

I am not advocating Ofsted is the best solution but there are some really contradictory posts on here by teachers who aren’t giving a balanced view and very few have suggested an alternative. Schools already have Improvement Partners who can be the critical friend so there is a lot of opportunity to be challenged and make changes in readiness for any sort of inspection.

So if they can’t make an assessment in what, 20 hours of inspection - how do you think parents can do that in a 30 mins visit?

This - I've been through loads of ofsted inspections. If you can talk the talk they give you a good grade. I've always got good grades so I'm not motivated by bitterness in saying this. Ofsted are not experts by any means. A better system would be senior leaders from other institutions visiting each other and making judgements plus working with the institution if they have concerns. Senior leaders are paid enough (their wages are much higher comparatively than they used to be). They could be asked to do this once a year as part of their normal duties - thus saving us all a lot of money that's currently wasted on Ofsted.

@cavies sorry didn't mean to imply that that is what happened everywhere - just what happened to us. A female inspector may have got different answers from children in our case.