AIBU to not want ofstead abolished?

[Applepiesmum]

please bare with I don’t have a school aged child yet

however it’s the only criteria to assess schools against and as a parent the first thing I check when looking at a school if I should move to an area

i understand headteachers might be under pressure to perform but so are all public sector workers Doctors and nurses assessed and judged on performance by patients / students

am I the only person who is thinking like this

Look at staff turnover. That will tell you more about a school than anything else.

@pinkhousesarebest

Yep. Staff turnover is the number one thing to look out for. Good retention speaks volumes.

A simple attritional system so simple people to make a complex decision!

Not always Heads either, the recent lead inspector we had had only been Assistant Head for a year, never a deputy or a Head, utterly ridiculous

@pinkhousesarebest Where is staff turnover reported to prospective parents? Oh! It isn’t. It’s so difficult to know this if you are a new parent. It might also tell you great staff have got promotion, husbands have changed jobs and a few might have retired. Turnover is rarely all disgruntled staff.

I do think there needs to be nuances in grading. RI to Good is quite a big leap. Something in between makes more sense. The descriptors do let parents know the judgement categories. Maybe a “Good with
some improvement needed” would work. No judgement at all, just narrative, is too confusing.

ofsted have a huge amount of evidence before they go near a school. The best Heads (Michael Wilshaw described this) just have a standard day. Nothing can be changed in a day. They are schools with nothing to fear. They know they are good! Either Dc make progress and you safeguard them, or you have shortcomings. Many posters need to read the Ofsted framework as there’s a lot of rubbish here!!

Primary teacher for 25 years.
Lots of Ofsteds under my belt in several different schools.
The impact on the curriculum, staff and children is great, and definitely to the detriment of staff wellbeing and curriculum delivery, paradoxically.

My 2 DC go to a Good school and an Inadequate school respectively, and both are just what I and my DC want and need. The Good school has a gorgeous community vibe which nurtures my primary aged DC, while the Inadequate secondary (downgraded from Outstanding in the last 12 months) has a fantastic academic record as well as the very best SEN support we could wish for.

When looking for a school, do visit. Do staff seem relaxed, available and approachable? Do you sense humour and humanity? If 2+ form entry, are teachers working in the same cohort still afforded an element of autonomy and creativity in how how they teach their classes, or is all teaching entirely streamlined; is there a sense of trusting professional judgement? Can you see any teachers over 40 (serious question: long serving teachers are a good indicator that a school is a pleasant place to work, and that experience and seniority are valued)?

A reformed protocol of regular local authority reviews, working on school development targets would be much more constructive. 'Outside eyes' are a must as is rigorous dialogue about improvement, but it can be done as a bespoke collaborative process which benefits schools.

Tbh I'd avoid any school with outstanding Ofsted....more interested in Ofsted than teaching and it's a snap shot of the days Ofsted is in. In my experience which might be wrong is the best school is the good ones. I judged the school on the teachers, the head and how it felt and my good school alot better than the outstanding in my town. As a parent you know if the school is right for your child. My Dsis ignored Ofsted reports too and the school she choose was amazing and again better than the outstanding one..... I only know my town and sisters town so might be wrong in yours ..

Before there was Ofsted, there were other systems. A system where inspection is followed by inspectors working with the school to improve things, or spreading good practise from excellent schools would be the ideal.

No Ofsted doesn't mean nothing, but it hopefully means something different and better. The aim is that every school is a good school, not that one parent personally gets to choose the best one while others miss out.

It needs an overhaul. The last time we were inspected our Lead was a secondary science teacher. She was considering failing us because she didn't see separate science lessons covering biology, chemistry and physics. We were lucky they were being checked by HMI as a new inspector. We are a primary school.

I agree avoid schools with an outstanding ofsted

The last time I was in a school judged outstanding, it was one of the most violent schools I had ever been in, but the head was good at hiding it, even saw her once threaten a young police officer into moving scene of crime tape

The "outstanding" verdict lead immediate to mass staff resignations, as we had been relying on ofsted to help us, but they didn't

6 months after the outstanding judgement, a child lost a lung after being stabbed. The child was expelled, and the expulsion back dated one day, and the head released an announcement saying the victim was a former pupil, and the crime not related to the school

Former teacher here. Ofsted doesn't give a remotely accurate or realistic picture of what a school is like. The whole thing is a performance on the day, it's just a joke really. Also sometimes the inspectors have never taught so what do they know?

Ofsted values things which are sometimes not that great for the kids e.g. a very formal approach in early years or how much pointless paperwork the teachers do.

My son is currently in reception at an outstanding school. He's meant to have regular observations on his learning sent to me via the tapestry app but there has been fuck all since 9th December! I taught in a school which was 'only good' but the obs and general parent and teacher communication was much better than this.

Ofsted really means nothing. Get rid and replace with something that works.

Exactly this. In my experience Good is better than Outstanding which is more about getting the paperwork right.

Yes outstanding can often mean a head who is a data cruncher and also very good at PR.

As both a parent and teacher who has gone through six inspections, I strongly believe that Ofsted should be massively reformed.

yes, and outstanding can mean a head that prioritises ofsted over everything, over pupils, over education, over staff, ....

@Nimbostratus100

Absolutely. My sister in law is currently off with work related stress as are many of her colleagues, however the school has just been graded outstanding. She literally chucked her staff under the bus for that grade and is now relying on supply. Of course with ofsted not due for a while now it probably was worth it for her as she’s a career head. She will move on and do the same to another school under her “expert leadership”.

Nursery will get marked down for silly things and I assume schools are the same. For example if every member of staff hasn't signed a piece of paperwork you can get marked down, even if all the staff are following whatever is on the paperwork
I work for a chain of nurseries and one got marked down for having the wrong colour mop in the eating area. Ridiculous things that actually don't affect the quality of care/education children are getting.
That's why I never even look at OFSTED reports.

Yes, it should be abolished. House prices in outstanding school areas are the reason why house prices rocketed.
I live in a varied area where prices vary due to the local school catchment.

I didn’t look at Ofsted when considering a school for my daughter. Although to be fair, we’re rural so we don’t have much choice. I went on the feeling within the schools.

it’s the only criteria to assess schools against and as a parent the first thing I check when looking at a school

This is why Ofsted should be replaced. Because you’re giving credit to its rating when it’s rating means nothing.

Maybe it's the build up.
They should just turn up.

Then no need for ready prepared lessons or prepping people and stressing them out.

They should be realistic and not expect perfect behaviour or perfect anything. That's not reality.

They should be looking at grades and teachers and staff knowing their pupils... And their needs and how they adapt.

I think perhaps turn up unannounced but with realistic expectations and that morning invite parent feedback all day and night. Then go back in and ask about the feedback and see how that matches their initial visit.

I know posters will tear this apart but I'm thinking out loud on a chat forum not submitting a report.

No - parents don’t need to read the Ofsted framework. Parents need a system that somehow independently validates the quality of teaching and safeguarding without being an education expert and signposts to what good looks like.

I'm afraid that wouldn't prevent the endless staff meetings which start 'This is what Ofsted want .....' involving reams of pointless paperwork. All the box ticking which doesn't actually prove anything actually happens. Head Teachers who think they know what Ofsted are looking for (wrongly in many cases). I'd rather send my child to a school where teachers see them as individuals rather than percentages. I'm a retired teacher, a parent and a grandparent.

@Applepiesmum My children have now all left school. And I should add the disclaimer that they went through the independent system - but, given that you suggest that you have choices, my comments are not irrelevant.

I based my choice of schools for my children - who are all very different - on what I thought would be the best fit for them. You can only work this out if you visit schools. I was looking at: what are the Year 6/8 children like? Are they polite and chatty? Do you like the Head? Are her/his values the same as yours? The main thing I went on was my gut feeling. Did I feel happy at the school? Did I feel that it would be a school where my children would feel cared for and nurtured?

I never read a single word of an ISIS (independent schools' version of OFSTED) report, because those reports were meaningless to me. They told me nothing about how my actual children would fare at any particular school.

My DC loved their schools and we made the right choices. But they had nothing to do with inspections.

YANBU. I’m of the opinion that if the teachers are strongly against it, then it must be doing something right.