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AIBU?

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Original poster

Small theft by carer

81 replies

BlackFlyChardonnay · 22/03/2023 13:01

Wondering what you would do in this situation.

My nan lives alone but has a carer pop in to help with meal times and washing and dressing three times a day. We (myself and 2 other relatives) have put cameras in her home to keep an eye on her. She has fallen a few times so also has an alarm necklace. The cameras are a back up because she is so unbelievably stubborn that she rarely wears the alarm necklace. Last time she fell and wasn't wearing it and ended up laying on her kitchen floor for 4 hours. The cameras are an easy way to check she's got in and out of bed ok etc.

So, to be clear, she knows about the cameras and so do the carers.

The main carer is a registered nurse who is now self employed as a carer. I personally haven't warmed to her for a few reasons (she never stays the full hour that she's paid for, she has slagged off her other patients to me and to my nan which I think is unprofessional, and slagged off the other carers to us over minor things).

Anyway. My nan absolutely loves this carer and thinks she's amazing so that is the main thing.

Nan says to me today "you'll never guess what nurse did! That horrible old man she looks after was being such a nuisance yesterday that when she bought his shopping, she got a bottle of wine for herself" nan was saying this like it is brilliant by the way. I said "but that's stealing" and she said "she deserves it. He shouldn't be so demanding".

Nan sometimes mixes stuff up so I then looked back at the cameras and saw the actual conversation.

Nan was correct. This "demanding" patient of hers, who has dementia by the way so is allowed to be demanding imo, had asked her to go shopping so she put a £6 bottle of wine in the trolley for herself and used his bank card to pay. Apparently the niece checks all receipts but as her uncle regularly drinks wine and he can't reliably say how many bottles he's received, the niece will never know! Carer laughing away to nan about how it serves him right etc.

I know it's only £6 but it makes me feel ill. No matter how "demanding" he is, she has stolen. You know what - my nan can be demanding, should she be stolen from too? I asked nan this and she just repeats "well he's demanding she deserves a treat" etc.

What, if anything, would you do about this? Nan really likes this carer, and has hated at least 2 previous ones. I haven't told my relatives yet. I don't know if I'm overreacting but it makes me think we shouldn't trust her at all.

Thoughts?

OP posts:
Senorfrijoles · 22/03/2023 14:57

endofthelinefinally · 22/03/2023 14:19

Nobody will care or do anything about it, but I agree with PP that this person is testing the waters and will progress to stealing from your nan.
My dad's carer stole thousands of pounds from him. She had been in court previously for the same thing, we found out later. He was blind and housebound, but it was his fault for giving her his card to do his shopping.
MIL's carer stole all her jewellery.
This particular crime is very difficult to prove and deal with, especially if the victim has dementia.

Firstly, I'm so sorry to read this happened to your father.

I dealt with similar cases as a SW, I agree that getting criminal sanctions rarely (if ever) happens because the police will say they can't prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the person being cared for didn't tell the carer they could use the card for that purpose (even where the person lacked capacity to give consent). However, what I think would be different about this case is a video evidence of her admitting stealing.

Op I would speak to the LA safeguarding team, I hope they would take this very seriously even if the police can't/won't. I'm very sorry to those posters who have not had a good experience with police or the safeguarding team though.

saraclara · 22/03/2023 15:05

My mum has twice had her bank card used (without her knowledge) by a carer. One case went to court. While my mum was sleeping (in a nursing home at that point) a carer helped herself to her card and took money out at an ATM. Fortunately she was caught on the ATM camera.

When mum was moved to her own flat an extra care facility, her bank card was stolen and used in the local convenience store (she's paralysed btw, so can't use it herself). We were able to stop the card, but never knew which carer took it, as there are a load of them operating from the care office attached to the block.

Original poster
BlackFlyChardonnay · 22/03/2023 15:06

Really awful reading these stories. Some people are utter scum.

OP posts:
SixPenny · 22/03/2023 15:06

I would have got rid of her just for her unprofessional attitude, whether my nan loved her or not.
She is also a lowlife thief who steals from the vulnerable. Can you sink any lower than that!
She stole a bottle of wine from one client, probably a steak from another to go with it and a pint of milk from another for her brew.
Don't make the mistake of thinking that this was a one off, or that client was the only one she's stolen from.

2bazookas · 22/03/2023 15:07

You report her to the agency straight away and show them the evidence. Nurse deserves to get struck off to protect other patients..including your Nan.

Original poster
BlackFlyChardonnay · 22/03/2023 15:07

Senorfrijoles · 22/03/2023 14:57

Firstly, I'm so sorry to read this happened to your father.

I dealt with similar cases as a SW, I agree that getting criminal sanctions rarely (if ever) happens because the police will say they can't prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the person being cared for didn't tell the carer they could use the card for that purpose (even where the person lacked capacity to give consent). However, what I think would be different about this case is a video evidence of her admitting stealing.

Op I would speak to the LA safeguarding team, I hope they would take this very seriously even if the police can't/won't. I'm very sorry to those posters who have not had a good experience with police or the safeguarding team though.

Show quote history

Thank you

OP posts:
Bunnyhascovidnoteggs · 22/03/2023 15:12

My aunt was befriended by her carer who came with her dd. When aunt died guess who got her house?
Be careful on her behalf op.

Goneoutfortheday · 22/03/2023 15:12

I have a ring spy cam and the audio is very clear

WiddlinDiddlin · 22/03/2023 15:26

I would report and I would not tell your Nan either.

Id sort out replacement care first of course and then report her to both police and anyone else relevant!

For those doubting the audio on cams - I watch a LOT of cheapo and mid range in-home cctv footage as part of my job. I am trying to hear and see dog body language and any vocalisations from the dog, so the cameras need to pick up soft whines, grrs, barks etc.

Most cameras even the cheaper end of the range now pick up really good sound. I can hear slight huffs and faint whines, one of the dogs I was watching yesterday farted and I could hear that. Conversations between dog and owner are very clear on owner leaving/returning.

ChocHotolate · 22/03/2023 15:28

If she is a registered nurse you can report to the NMC which is the regulatory body

billyt · 22/03/2023 15:29

Lovelyveg80 · 22/03/2023 13:48

Incorrect when dealing with an employee

OverviewEmployers might monitor workers. This could be done in various ways, like:

CCTV
drug testing
bag searches
checking a worker’s emails or the websites they look at
Data protection law covers any monitoring that involves taking data, images or drug testing.

Show quote history

The DPA covers how your personal information is used by Organisations, Businesses (and of course, the Government)

gettingoldisshit · 22/03/2023 15:31

AskAwayAgain · 22/03/2023 13:13

You may not be able to do anything. We had major issues with the carer who was employed by my father. Because my father had capacity there was nothing we could do. There are no carer registers or ways of being struck off.
You can report it to the police but they may do nothing for such a small theft.

Yes there are registers and ways of being struck off if she is a registered nurse!

Wrongsideofpennines · 22/03/2023 15:41

Please report her and get rid of her. If this carer is doing this to one person the likelihood is she is doing it to others.

When my grandmother was living at home we had a call from the police suggesting we get rid of one of her carers. Other families had raised concerns about her stealing items from and the police wanted to know if we also had concerns to build a bigger picture of her crimes. Thankfully we didn't find any evidence of this and all her jewellery etc had already been put away by family for safe keeping. But the police thought it would only be a matter of time.

Lovelyveg80 · 22/03/2023 16:00

nan was saying this like it is brilliant by the way.

If you don’t report on the grounds that your nan likes her, then quite clearly the Apple doesn’t fall far from the cart.

Lovelyveg80 · 22/03/2023 16:01

Every day you sit on this evidence Op is another day this “carer” could be abusing one of her very very vulnerable clients

Lwrenagain · 22/03/2023 16:19

I've been a carer since I was 16 and could write a book about this shite.

You can (hope you don't!) justify this to yourself that your nan likes her and wants her to stay, but she's just using her other clients as a way to almost get nan onside, feel like her equal etc, not her patient and nan now feels like she can trust her because she's shared a secret with her. They've a friendship as opposed to a professional relationship.

What she's done is abuse, she's an absolute cunt for doing it.
That man with dementia might be horrid to care for, not disputing it, I've had actual shite thrown at me from one client, but would I have pocketed a fiver for a bottle of pinot on the way home? No, because I chose to work a low income job with the chances of being covered in poo, that's my fucking fault, not some poor fella who's got no facilities left.

I would take zero joy in nan losing a carer she liked or seeing someone lose a job, especially in this climate, however, she shouldn't be working with vulnerable people.
Not now, not again. Questionable morals, shitty impulse control, stealing, nah, in the bin with her.

You should report it and maybe not even tell nan that you have, just rely on the audio so nan isn't pissed at you.
I'd rather have a bit of a boring carer than one who'd steal.

I also want to add, when you're a carer for a difficult client, families will often, not always, not a given, but often want to offer you something, I've been offered cash, wine, chocs etc or sometimes things for my kids, magazines and sweets.
(It's a grey area that needs everything recorded with management and you morally shouldn't accept cash but some people will literally force you!) But my long arsed point is, she's stolen when more often than not, people would be buying her gifts to thank her for treating her clients with dignity and kindness regularly and this abhorrent arsehole has been stealing. Makes me sick tbh.

Sorry you are in this position, truly I am.

PinkChampange · 22/03/2023 16:20

Report to the company, the council and CQC also report to your local police station.

LooksLikeASugarInAPlum · 22/03/2023 16:24

I’d be most concerned about the talking about other clients.

Lwrenagain · 22/03/2023 16:26

Lovelyveg80 · 22/03/2023 16:00

nan was saying this like it is brilliant by the way.

If you don’t report on the grounds that your nan likes her, then quite clearly the Apple doesn’t fall far from the cart.

Hi, @Lovelyveg80 I've seen this alot, carers using other patients or stories of them to make other patients feel special, or as though they're a friend and "old bob is just some senile tosser nobody likes, but we all love coming to see you, marg!"
She will have worded the stealing in a gaslighty and justifiable way to OPs nan, making out that she's been abused by him almost, when the reality is, it's her fucking job to expect dementia patients aren't always the most reasonable. She'll have painted him as a total shit, not highly vulnerable person 🤬
I'm not excusing BTW, it's just a smart way of gaslighting the lonely people into feeling they've a friendship, nan might just feel she's "one of the gang" with this carer chatting like that.

LadyMary50 · 22/03/2023 16:26

AskAwayAgain · 22/03/2023 13:13

You may not be able to do anything. We had major issues with the carer who was employed by my father. Because my father had capacity there was nothing we could do. There are no carer registers or ways of being struck off.
You can report it to the police but they may do nothing for such a small theft.

But as she is a registered nurse she could be struck off the nursing register.So I would be reporting this to the appropriate authority

Dotjones · 22/03/2023 16:28

It's not an open and shut case as to whether you should report it or not. Obviously for the fact she's a thief you should, but consider your position carefully first.

Can you prove the carer knew the cameras are there and record audio and video? For example, has she signed a declaration that she's happy with it?

When she was informed you should have told her the purposes the camera would be used for. This is very important. If she's agreed you can have cameras to check that your relative hasn't fallen over or even that the carer is looking after her properly, that doesn't give you the right to record or review material that is not strictly relevant to that. She has to know why the cameras are being used - did she agree that conversations generally can be recorded and may be shared with her employer?

Privacy is a minefield and just because cameras are cheap and useful doesn't mean you can use the recordings for any purpose. You'll probably be OK in reporting it but it puts you at greater risk of being sued than doing nothing would.

Lovelyveg80 · 22/03/2023 16:29

Dotjones · 22/03/2023 16:28

It's not an open and shut case as to whether you should report it or not. Obviously for the fact she's a thief you should, but consider your position carefully first.

Can you prove the carer knew the cameras are there and record audio and video? For example, has she signed a declaration that she's happy with it?

When she was informed you should have told her the purposes the camera would be used for. This is very important. If she's agreed you can have cameras to check that your relative hasn't fallen over or even that the carer is looking after her properly, that doesn't give you the right to record or review material that is not strictly relevant to that. She has to know why the cameras are being used - did she agree that conversations generally can be recorded and may be shared with her employer?

Privacy is a minefield and just because cameras are cheap and useful doesn't mean you can use the recordings for any purpose. You'll probably be OK in reporting it but it puts you at greater risk of being sued than doing nothing would.

You have lost sight of the bigger picture here

Snowpatrolling · 22/03/2023 16:34

No, I’m a carer and this is disgusting. She’s taking advantage of a vulnerable man.
I have many patients who are demanding but they need to be treated with love and understanding, no bloody stealing.
I once had a client I took shopping who paid for a cake I picked up, point blank refused to let me pay for it, I rung the family as soon as I left and was honest and said I’d drop the money to them. They laughed and told me not to worry about a £2 cake but the guilt I felt was incredible. Never picked up anything shopping again!!!

Lucimaya · 22/03/2023 16:35

Definitely report it. Not just stealing, but from a vulnerable person who probably doesn't have mental capacity and taking advantage of that. So some might say it's "only" a £6 bottle of wine. What if she worked in Tesco and took the same bottle of wine for herself? I doubt very much she'd have a job to return to.

Snowpatrolling · 22/03/2023 16:36

Oh and she’s also in breach of confidentiality by discussing other service users and carers. I’d be reporting everything.