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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Small theft by carer

81 replies

BlackFlyChardonnay · 22/03/2023 13:01

Wondering what you would do in this situation.

My nan lives alone but has a carer pop in to help with meal times and washing and dressing three times a day. We (myself and 2 other relatives) have put cameras in her home to keep an eye on her. She has fallen a few times so also has an alarm necklace. The cameras are a back up because she is so unbelievably stubborn that she rarely wears the alarm necklace. Last time she fell and wasn't wearing it and ended up laying on her kitchen floor for 4 hours. The cameras are an easy way to check she's got in and out of bed ok etc.

So, to be clear, she knows about the cameras and so do the carers.

The main carer is a registered nurse who is now self employed as a carer. I personally haven't warmed to her for a few reasons (she never stays the full hour that she's paid for, she has slagged off her other patients to me and to my nan which I think is unprofessional, and slagged off the other carers to us over minor things).

Anyway. My nan absolutely loves this carer and thinks she's amazing so that is the main thing.

Nan says to me today "you'll never guess what nurse did! That horrible old man she looks after was being such a nuisance yesterday that when she bought his shopping, she got a bottle of wine for herself" nan was saying this like it is brilliant by the way. I said "but that's stealing" and she said "she deserves it. He shouldn't be so demanding".

Nan sometimes mixes stuff up so I then looked back at the cameras and saw the actual conversation.

Nan was correct. This "demanding" patient of hers, who has dementia by the way so is allowed to be demanding imo, had asked her to go shopping so she put a £6 bottle of wine in the trolley for herself and used his bank card to pay. Apparently the niece checks all receipts but as her uncle regularly drinks wine and he can't reliably say how many bottles he's received, the niece will never know! Carer laughing away to nan about how it serves him right etc.

I know it's only £6 but it makes me feel ill. No matter how "demanding" he is, she has stolen. You know what - my nan can be demanding, should she be stolen from too? I asked nan this and she just repeats "well he's demanding she deserves a treat" etc.

What, if anything, would you do about this? Nan really likes this carer, and has hated at least 2 previous ones. I haven't told my relatives yet. I don't know if I'm overreacting but it makes me think we shouldn't trust her at all.

Thoughts?

OP posts:
Throwncrumbs · 22/03/2023 13:43

AskAwayAgain · 22/03/2023 13:13

You may not be able to do anything. We had major issues with the carer who was employed by my father. Because my father had capacity there was nothing we could do. There are no carer registers or ways of being struck off.
You can report it to the police but they may do nothing for such a small theft.

If she’s on the NMC register as a qualified nurse you can report her. If she is not on the register she’s lied about being a qualified nurse, her name should still be on the register if she has let her registration lapse. I fail to see how she keeps up her registration if she’s only employed as a carer as you have to reregister every 3 years and there’s so much you have to do enable this and caring isn’t enough practice. Anyway I would report her because it is abuse of a vulnerable patient weather it’s a bottle of wine or not!

OlympicProcrastinator · 22/03/2023 13:46

I’m going to go against the grain here. Purely on the basis that good care is extremely difficult to get and your Nan is vulnerable. A change of carer from one she likes to one she doesn’t might impact her negatively. Does she provide good care to your Nan? Has she stolen anything from her? If the answers are yes and no then I’d continue, especially as you have cameras to protect your Nan.
The conversation may not be true. She could be spinning a yarn to make her laugh. Maybe it is true but does she know she’s being recorded audio wise? If not could this get you in trouble?
None of the above condones the carers actions if indeed, she did steal wine, but I think the level of care she provides your Nan and the effect of any changes need to be considered before any action is taken. Just my thoughts anyway.

Lovelyveg80 · 22/03/2023 13:48

Bearpawk · 22/03/2023 13:39

well then the OP will have breached the DPA

@Lovelyveg80 home cameras are not covered by the DPA

Incorrect when dealing with an employee

OverviewEmployers might monitor workers. This could be done in various ways, like:

CCTV
drug testing
bag searches
checking a worker’s emails or the websites they look at
Data protection law covers any monitoring that involves taking data, images or drug testing.

Incognito2023 · 22/03/2023 13:49

Definitely stealing, and I agree this nurse/carer can’t be trusted. However, it is very tricky if your Nan likes her.

Our experience was that good carers are very hard to find (national shortage apparently, as it doesn’t pay well and Brexit made worse). We tried dozens of agencies, none had availability. Took months to find some and then they weren’t great.
The most important thing for us would be that our relative was happy and being well cared for. You have taken sensible precautions by having the cameras.

I agree her morals are questionable and ideally I would say get rid. But how easy will she be to replace? (don’t cut your nose off to spite your face)
Just keep an eye on her carefully, especially if your Nan deteriorates and her judgement is affected.

SomePeopleAreJustBloodyStupid · 22/03/2023 13:52

That's sickening. I'd report the bitch to the police. I worked as a carer for 20-odd years, both in the community and as private help. When I used to get anyone's shopping, I did so with my own money, then took the receipt back to the client and was then reimbursed. I NEVER once used a person's bank card.

Bunnyhascovidnoteggs · 22/03/2023 13:52

If she is taking more pay than she has worked she is already stealing off your nan..

FuckoffeeBeforeCoffee · 22/03/2023 13:56

I'd report her and I'd have no qualms about doing so.

AskAwayAgain · 22/03/2023 13:57

Report her to who?

ChopSuey2 · 22/03/2023 14:05

Bunnyhascovidnoteggs · 22/03/2023 13:52

If she is taking more pay than she has worked she is already stealing off your nan..

Agree.

I'm disgusted. However difficult her other client is, that doesn't excuse it at all. I'd raise a safeguarding concern to the local authority safeguarding team. If you Google safeguarding adults and your local council you should be able to find the right team. It's financial abuse. I couldn't trust her with a family member.

Does she do your mum's shopping? Do the receipts reflect what's in her cupboards?

Blackbirdblue30 · 22/03/2023 14:06

There is no difference between that bottle of wine and the carer who stole bits jewellery from my grandmother, because old ladies with dementia can't be relied upon to know where they set down their rings. That carer probably started 'small' too. It took ages to prove in our case, but you already have proof of elder abuse. That poor man. Definitely report.

AskAwayAgain · 22/03/2023 14:06

The local authority safeguarding team are unlikely to care.
I have been here. Nobody cared. And it was far worse than what the OP reports.

Pinkbonbon · 22/03/2023 14:07

My worry would be that she is testing the water. And planting the seed that its OK to steal 'a little' from people making her life hard. So that if she does from your mum, your mum will think 'oh, maybe I'm difficult sometimes. And besides, I really like her so...is it a big deal if she takes a little 'extra' here and there?'.

I would fire her. But I wouldn't report to the agency personally. It may be she just made a one off mistake in the heat of the moment and was feeling guilty so mentioned it to your mum in the hopes of reassurance.

Senorfrijoles · 22/03/2023 14:08

AskAwayAgain · 22/03/2023 13:57

Report her to who?

The local authority Safeguarding adults team, who will take this very seriously OP.

Senorfrijoles · 22/03/2023 14:11

AskAwayAgain · 22/03/2023 14:06

The local authority safeguarding team are unlikely to care.
I have been here. Nobody cared. And it was far worse than what the OP reports.

What is your basis for this comment? I've had similar issue some through as safeguarding in my work as a SW, specifically carers buying their own shopping with service users' bank cards.

LadyKenya · 22/03/2023 14:13

iaapap · 22/03/2023 13:27

Difficult. If your Nan likes her carer, I wouldn’t disrupt the situation. But the carer is scum for stealing from someone with dementia. Also note that she did not steal pasta to feed her kids or similar, she stole wine that she didn’t need.

Who said that she did not need the wine? She could be a functioning alcoholic for all we know. Besides I would find it more concerning that you would let behaviour like that slide if she was looking after your Gran. I would certainly not want anyone who could behave in such a manner, looking after my Grandmother.

DustyLee123 · 22/03/2023 14:19

Report to the NMC.

endofthelinefinally · 22/03/2023 14:19

Nobody will care or do anything about it, but I agree with PP that this person is testing the waters and will progress to stealing from your nan.
My dad's carer stole thousands of pounds from him. She had been in court previously for the same thing, we found out later. He was blind and housebound, but it was his fault for giving her his card to do his shopping.
MIL's carer stole all her jewellery.
This particular crime is very difficult to prove and deal with, especially if the victim has dementia.

Original poster
BlackFlyChardonnay · 22/03/2023 14:33

Lovelyveg80 · 22/03/2023 13:12

I then looked back at the cameras and saw the actual conversation.

the audio must be amazing

I'm assuming this is a passive aggressive expression of scepticism rather than genuine amazement at modern technology.

I don't have any comparables, but it's good enough. I can hear clearly what is said.

OP posts:
Original poster
BlackFlyChardonnay · 22/03/2023 14:39

To answer a few questions. She was told it records audio and visual. You can watch live or look back at recordings over the past 7 days, anything prior to 7 days and you can only view still images when the camera detects movement.

I assume she either thinks no one checks it or she's so blasé she thinks what she's done is ok.

If you asked my nan "is stealing wrong?" She'd absolutely say it is. However, she is very much the type of person who thinks you can do no wrong if she likes you. If she dislikes you, you literally can't do anything right. So, she likes this carer and has decided she doesn't like this man, therefore she is on the carer's side.

OP posts:
Conkersinautumn · 22/03/2023 14:39

Report her. I'm a carer and I'd be calling the police and social services myself. How weird that your nan is delighted by this behaviour.

Original poster
BlackFlyChardonnay · 22/03/2023 14:47

She's had this carer since January. She really likes her and she is very, very fussy.

I've previously told nan that carer should do the full hour she's paid for. Nan says she is happy for her to go when she's done her jobs even if that's after only 30-40 minutes because she works so hard and gets tired. However, I think if she has time left she should sit and have a cuppa with nan (I visit a lot, as does another relative and her neighbour, but she gets lonely and bored understandably - she'd definitely enjoy the company).

I'm going to discuss this with the other relatives and see what they think.

OP posts:
londonrach · 22/03/2023 14:51

Carer needs reporting for safeguarding. I have had to report a nursing home for safeguarding,...awful to do but huge benefit to the patient concerned. You have a responsibility to do this know you know. I'd also get another carer for your nan. I wouldn't allow this one to see her again. What she taken from your nan?

Original poster
BlackFlyChardonnay · 22/03/2023 14:52

I'm not going to pretend my nan is this wonderful, delightful little old lady.

Previous carers have been dismissed for 1) being black, 2) being white but "foreign".

This carer is white English, which goes a long way to explaining why she likes her.

Before I get jumped on, those are not my views or the rest of the family's, just hers. Irony that she didn't trust the brilliant carer because she was black, but trusts the theiving white one 🤦‍♀️

OP posts:
Original poster
BlackFlyChardonnay · 22/03/2023 14:53

I haven't seen her take anything from nan but I obviously don't watch the cameras constantly.

OP posts:
Redglitter · 22/03/2023 14:55

I wouldn't be happy with her looking after my relative. I cant imagine the wine was a one off & I'd be concerned about what else she's stolen from clients. I'd report her