Nurses, would you vote yes or no to the current offer?

FourBoysAndAFeline · 2023-03-22T08:14:17+00:00

On the face of it 5% is insulting. But since Pat Cullen went into more detail about what it entails and they also seem to be saying take it, or we might not get a better offer (or words to that effect) I'm dithering between yes and no. On the other hand, Wales voted no on their 4% offer (I'm unsure if there was any other offers along side that). Im torn but beginning to wonder if I should vote yes... YABU - I vote no! YANBU - I vote yes!

spelunky · 22/03/2023 08:23

I'm not a nurse, first of all. But I have close friends/ family who are nurses and also in other roles in the NHS, so have some insight.

The average salary of a nurse in the UK (in 2022) is around £35,000. So £36,750 with the 5% rise.

Really, I do think that is in line with other professions of a similar level in the UK. It would be nice to raise that a little bit more, but the NHS is in a crisis and I believe they are saying that any furhter pay rises would have to come out of existing funds (i.e. the government won't be putting more money into it) - so it would mean further cuts to existing NHS services in order to pay for the salary increase.

I think the government should put more money into the NHS.

However, in the context of £36,750 being a decent salary and the current crisis, I think the nurses should take the offer. I don't know anyone who has had more than a 5% pay rise this year in any sector. It's rubbish, but I think pushing this further would not result in anything positive.

EL8888 · 22/03/2023 08:34

It’s a no from me

Inflation is raging and it’s ultimately a 5% pay cut. We haven’t been properly paid in the 10 years l have been qualified. Plus nurses do more and more each year e.g. prescribing. I work in mental health and on a typical weekend you see no doctors at all and little of other functions e.g. OT. So nurses carry the can

Original poster

FourBoysAndAFeline · 22/03/2023 08:43

spelunky · 22/03/2023 08:23

I'm not a nurse, first of all. But I have close friends/ family who are nurses and also in other roles in the NHS, so have some insight.

The average salary of a nurse in the UK (in 2022) is around £35,000. So £36,750 with the 5% rise.

Really, I do think that is in line with other professions of a similar level in the UK. It would be nice to raise that a little bit more, but the NHS is in a crisis and I believe they are saying that any furhter pay rises would have to come out of existing funds (i.e. the government won't be putting more money into it) - so it would mean further cuts to existing NHS services in order to pay for the salary increase.

I think the government should put more money into the NHS.

However, in the context of £36,750 being a decent salary and the current crisis, I think the nurses should take the offer. I don't know anyone who has had more than a 5% pay rise this year in any sector. It's rubbish, but I think pushing this further would not result in anything positive.

I don't understand why you are comparing it to other professions? What professions? And why them?

For further contest, bus drivers got an 18% pay rise, firefighters got a 12% payrise, and rail workers have a 10-15% payrise.
We have been offered 5%.

Are you talking about those professions?

OP posts:

Donotunderestimateme · 22/03/2023 08:51

Also compare the Scottish nurses pay offer (they were already paid more than us) to the 5% we have been offered.
Why are Scottish nurses worth more? We do the same job in the same health system (ie: paid for from public contributions free at the point of delivery, I’m aware that healthcare is under NHS Scotland).

cooliebrown · 22/03/2023 09:07

an NHS salary is worth something like 17% less now than it was in 2010. Over the same period MPs have voted themselves pay increases worth 26%.

I currently undecided about whether to vote to accept the deal currently on offer. It represents a further fall in real earnings. However, the one-off bonus payment of 6% would come in very handy right now in our household.

It's a proper dilemma.

Toddlerteaplease · 22/03/2023 10:14

I will vote for it. But I think that all three countries should be paid the same. But since it's devolved governments, there is not much we can do.
My manager said that they wouldn't re enter talks if it was refused. But can't find evidence for that.

Coffeeandchocs · 22/03/2023 10:19

I am a nurse and I’m outraged that we’ve been offered so much less than our counterparts in Scotland.

Taken from the Nursing Times website:
With the 2023-24 offer, NHS nurses in Scotland at bands 5-7 will be see a consolidated increase of between 12-16% over two years.

It is appalling to offer us 5%. I am voting no.

Original poster

FourBoysAndAFeline · 22/03/2023 10:43

Toddlerteaplease · 22/03/2023 10:14

I will vote for it. But I think that all three countries should be paid the same. But since it's devolved governments, there is not much we can do.
My manager said that they wouldn't re enter talks if it was refused. But can't find evidence for that.

I don't think that's true.

An RCN representative did say that if an agreement has not been reached within 6 months then we have to start all over again and vote whether to strike again.

Therefore we would not be back paid the 12 months we have been offered, it would begin again.

OP posts:

MoveBitch · 22/03/2023 10:46

As a band 2 I will be voting to take the deal, as it works out a lot more for us lower banded.

Especially as come April we'll be working for minimum wage. Which is a fucking insult and will see lots of support staff leave for better paying work

Toddlerteaplease · 22/03/2023 10:49

@FourBoysAndAFeline that's why I'm going to hire for it. The longer this goes on, the more money we will loose. And I didn't agree with the strikes anyway.

Donotunderestimateme · 22/03/2023 10:53

So the nurses went on strike and now the band 2s in all staff groups (this includes staff without a nursing role) are getting a good deal and the nurses are getting shafted again.

Whatisthisanyidea · 22/03/2023 10:54

If wages increase you get more people taking up the profession which in turn reduces the pressure of the position.

Im annoyed the government is so willing to hand out benefits instead of making employers pay staff a living wage - how about the government asks businesses to put their hands in their pockets so full time workers aren’t at food banks and the government pays its own workers a fair deal?

MoreHairyThanScary · 22/03/2023 10:55

I'm a nurse but not nhs ( however my salary is linked to AFC.

I don't get a say but if I did I would say no... we have become so conditioned to accepting the paltry shit that the government offers.

It will do nothing to stem the flow and encourage others to join the profession

Deathbyfluffy · 22/03/2023 10:56

spelunky · 22/03/2023 08:23

I'm not a nurse, first of all. But I have close friends/ family who are nurses and also in other roles in the NHS, so have some insight.

The average salary of a nurse in the UK (in 2022) is around £35,000. So £36,750 with the 5% rise.

Really, I do think that is in line with other professions of a similar level in the UK. It would be nice to raise that a little bit more, but the NHS is in a crisis and I believe they are saying that any furhter pay rises would have to come out of existing funds (i.e. the government won't be putting more money into it) - so it would mean further cuts to existing NHS services in order to pay for the salary increase.

I think the government should put more money into the NHS.

However, in the context of £36,750 being a decent salary and the current crisis, I think the nurses should take the offer. I don't know anyone who has had more than a 5% pay rise this year in any sector. It's rubbish, but I think pushing this further would not result in anything positive.

Nurses in Scotland received 6.5%, so on the face of it I don't see why any here would accept 5%

Deathbyfluffy · 22/03/2023 10:58

Toddlerteaplease · 22/03/2023 10:14

I will vote for it. But I think that all three countries should be paid the same. But since it's devolved governments, there is not much we can do.
My manager said that they wouldn't re enter talks if it was refused. But can't find evidence for that.

Your manager is wrong - if they didn't re-enter talks there'd just be endless strikes which couldn't happen.
People need to be more firm with keeping up strike action - only when it causes inconvenience will people take note and put a decent offer on the table.

reesewithoutaspoon · 22/03/2023 10:59

spelunky · 22/03/2023 08:23

I'm not a nurse, first of all. But I have close friends/ family who are nurses and also in other roles in the NHS, so have some insight.

The average salary of a nurse in the UK (in 2022) is around £35,000. So £36,750 with the 5% rise.

Really, I do think that is in line with other professions of a similar level in the UK. It would be nice to raise that a little bit more, but the NHS is in a crisis and I believe they are saying that any furhter pay rises would have to come out of existing funds (i.e. the government won't be putting more money into it) - so it would mean further cuts to existing NHS services in order to pay for the salary increase.

I think the government should put more money into the NHS.

However, in the context of £36,750 being a decent salary and the current crisis, I think the nurses should take the offer. I don't know anyone who has had more than a 5% pay rise this year in any sector. It's rubbish, but I think pushing this further would not result in anything positive.

Can we bury this lie/propaganda that most nurses earn £35k? they do not.
The majority of nurses are band 5 and their pay range is 27k to 32k.
The average includes directors of nursing and band 8's who work in management offices and haven't been near a patient in donkey's years. So have no idea how difficult it is on the frontline and why recruitment and retention is so bad.

I vote no.
Bus drivers, train drivers, barristers, and firemen have all been offered more. Coincidentally professions that traditionally are male-dominated. Why is nursing being offered a pay cut AGAIN?

Accept this and you're accepting more years of pay cuts and being treated badly.Nothing will change

MeinKraft · 22/03/2023 11:02

Not a nurse but 5% sounds like a rubbish offer to me.

Reallybadidea · 22/03/2023 11:09

The average includes directors of nursing and band 8's who work in management offices and haven't been near a patient in donkey's years.

Agree on your first point, the pay of higher bands does bring the average up. But there are lots of band 8s who have specialist clinical roles and lots of patient contact. We're not all managers at that level!

Possibly not a popular view, but I am sick of the higher bands being fobbed off with lower percentage pay awards because we've got the temerity to do a job that attracts better pay. It might seem reasonable in the short term but eventually nobody will want to take on those roles because it just won't be worth it financially.

strawberryicecreamice · 22/03/2023 11:11

Is it just nurses who striked ? Can lower bands strike if they're a member of the union?

shakeitoffsis · 22/03/2023 11:11

I'm band 5 and no I won't be voting to accept.

Toddlerteaplease · 22/03/2023 11:29

Donotunderestimateme · 22/03/2023 10:53

So the nurses went on strike and now the band 2s in all staff groups (this includes staff without a nursing role) are getting a good deal and the nurses are getting shafted again.

Yep.

Donotunderestimateme · 22/03/2023 11:29

Yes @strawberryicecreamice lower bands with a nursing role who are members of the RCN can and did strike and deserve an improvement in their pay as their work is demanding and we need more people in these roles. It is a better deal for lower bands but not a good one for the majority of nursing staff. So if all the lower banded HCSWs say yes the band 5 nurses are being let down by their colleagues.

Toddlerteaplease · 22/03/2023 11:32

I am
Probably being thick, but I don't understand why lower bands should get more, in proportion to band fives and above.

Whenisitsummer · 22/03/2023 11:32

I will vote to accept the offer, it’s better than last years £1400 flat rate which for my band worked out at around 2.8%. So the one off payment and 5% is an improvement. Yes I’d have liked more , in line with firefighters but it’s not going to happen.

reesewithoutaspoon · 22/03/2023 11:35

Toddlerteaplease · 22/03/2023 11:32

I am
Probably being thick, but I don't understand why lower bands should get more, in proportion to band fives and above.

It's a divisive tactic. instead of all bands rejecting the offer the lower bands are more likely to accept because its good for them, this divides the vote.