Nurses, would you vote yes or no to the current offer?

[FourBoysAndAFeline]

On the face of it 5% is insulting.
But since Pat Cullen went into more detail
about what it entails and they also seem to be saying take it, or we might not get a better offer (or words to that effect) I'm dithering between yes and no.
On the other hand, Wales voted no on their 4% offer (I'm unsure if there was any other offers along side that).
Im torn but beginning to wonder if I should vote yes...

YABU - I vote no!
YANBU - I vote yes!

I would vote no if I had a vote. I’m a nurse but not eligible to vote. It’s an absolute shambles and I’m now looking to change unions as the RCN have shown they have no interest in the actual working conditions of nurses and seem to be more concerned about promoting nurse awards or a specific health week than fighting for our pay and conditions.

I'm not a nurse (or in the medical field at all) but have relatives who are.

There's no way I'd accept 5% if I were, though. They won't just not give you anything. They can't. We need nurses and if there's not a fair increase too many will leave the profession.

We were so close to looking credible with the planned strike with no widespread derogations, the gov finally listened and came to the table.

When negotiating, you never accept the first offer - that is not a negotiation.

Nurses in Scotland are paid more, we should all be on a level playing field.

The other professions mentioned earlier that have been offered more than 5% are all male dominated - a coincidence? I don't think so.

They think we are weak women who should just accept what crumbs we are offered and shut up.

We should be showing we are a strong highly educated profession that deserve to be paid appropriately for the skills we have.

I will be voting no and am happy to be in it for the long game.

They think the lump sum will tempt so many and sadly I think it might.

I will be angry, frustrated and disappointed in my fellow nurses if this is accepted.

https://www.nhsemployers.org/articles/government-and-agenda-change-trade-unions-offer-principle This is the offer

The 2022/23 offer is basically a lump sum which is non-consolidated (approx 7%)
Non-consolidated means its only for that year and doesn't increase the actual base salary because it's removed at the end of the year, so in effect, not a pay rise just a cash lump sump.

So nurses go into 2023/24 negotiations on the same pay scale they were on in 2021/22 as they essentially received no pay rise just a lump sum (which doesnt count towards their pension)
So the 5% rise is 5% over the last 2 years in effect.
Doesn't sound so great now
The lump sum is because they don't want to raise the base salary in case inflation drops. Its also a carrot to encourage nurses to vote yes, because the thought of a lump sum is appealing, but long term it's not going to increase the base salary by much at all.

After 21 years in the profession I think I just want to quit now. I feel so down and disrespected. I’m a long time off retirement and I’m currently being treated for PTSD. I don’t think I can carry on. I am not the only one who will make this decision and then all the lower bands will find that they are doing the band 5 roles for peanuts and the government will have destroyed the nursing profession.
The reason nursing has become a degree entry profession is because there is clear evidence that patients are more likely to survive and have good outcomes if their nurse is degree educated. So any members of the public who are happy to see the profession down graded are happy to take their chances when critically unwell.
well good luck to them.

Lots of comments about nurses in Scotland earning more than nurses in England and Wales. It's worth remembering that Scotland has higher income tax than England and Wales to fund this (and other things).

@Donotunderestimateme thank you.

I will be voting yes.

Retired nurse here (40 years service). If I had a vote it would be no.
Currently lying on the sofa in agony with my 5 prolapsed discs probably due to working in chronically short staffed wards with no lifting equipment.

I'm an ODP and with Unison but when the time comes to vote on the pay I will be voting to reject. I think it's insulting when MPs are happy to give themselves payrise after payrise and enable handouts to their rich mates. Test and trace anyone?

I also don't agree with the new pay spine for nurses that they are "considering". Particularly in my department, I do the same (or more) than the majority of the nurses and potentially getting paid less for it is insulting.

Donotunderestimateme
I feel the same, after 23 years I’m stuck at bottom band 5 bank work as I changed specialities and then had children and can’t afford childcare. My workplace gets so much from me with my 23 years experience but I get peanuts. It will be another 6 years till I can think about a permanent position again and look to go up the bands, I also can’t afford to do a post grad certificate or diploma due to my poor wage and being a bank nurse I won’t get funding.
I get £12.80 per hour basic wage I have to work all nights to make my pay better off. I am so angry as being bank I won’t get any lump sum payment either.
think it’s nearly time to give up the job I love it’s so demoralising.

I'll vote no. We are worth more.

I think anyone voting yes to this is being deceived.
They are dangling a 2k bonus payment in front of your eyes and saying look a sparkly thing. But in 2 years your pay will have only risen 5% and next year there will be no sparkly object to look at and you lost your chance to get a better long term offer.

@spelunky you are not comparing like for like.

Which of the professions you think are getting a good enough deal, are responsible for the care of unwell people? Lose their job over medication errors? Work with unsafe staffing ratios?

I'm not saying the deal is good or bad but a nursing role really does hold a lot of life and death responsibility.

To the posters further down... band 2 and 3 are not 'shafting' nurses. They get low wages for the work they do, especially on wards. If they get £200 more, good on them

Not a nurse but I’d vote no. If they can put benefits up in line with inflation at 10% and all the professions dominated by men like firefighters and rail workers are getting even more than that, then they can afford to pay nurses better as well.

5% is insulting.

@bookish83 - the band 5 nurses are being shafted though - I said that the lower bands are letting down their colleagues (although I understand the temptation when you are on a low wage) but I said the nurses are being shafted and meant by the government - as they have created this divisive offer.
I’m sorry if I offended any lower bands but it is true that you would be voting ‘yes’ without consideration for the registered staff. And you will end up taking on more and more responsibility for that wage increase. In fact you are probably already taking on more than you reasonably should.

@cornflakesandtea well go on strike then and make your voice heard. Of course you should have wage rises in line with inflation - be angry. But don’t be angry with the nurses who you think you work harder than.
we shouldn’t fight amongst ourselves - I in no way want to squabble with unregistered nursing staff - I even said in a previous post that they deserve a wage increase and work hard and we need more of them.
but we should all be looking out of reach other and fight as a group not think ‘that’s a good offer for me stuff my colleagues’

How much better is the offer to the lower paid to create the division in the vote?

@TheRealist what do you mean? Do you mean the old D grade E grade stuff?

@merlinpass 10.4 % for people on lowest banding - bringing them in line with band 3 pay.
compared to 5% for other bands

I would have gone on strike but my union is absolutely useless and not enough voted. Many of my colleagues didn't get sent a ballot to vote despite calling numerous times. Whether this was down to the postal strikes or sheer incompetence from unison is up for debate.
I'm not angry at the nurses at all. I supported my colleagues from the picket line on my days off. And I'm not saying I "work harder" than my colleagues on my department, but I do have more responsibilities than they do yet get paid the same (or potentially less with this new pay spine, which is divisive and not good for any of us).

I think nurses should vote no to this.

Many nurses I know voted to strike, not because of pay (although of course they want to be paid in line with their knowledge, skills and experience) but because they cannot continue to work with the low ratios and lack of safety measures that they do. They are in fear of their registration every shift they do and emotionally drained with stress and pressure. Decent and fair play is an important price in the puzzle in retaining experienced staff and attracting new trainees to the profession. Pay is an important element in the societal respect and regard that is vital to morale.

A short term sparkly bonis and a below inflation offer is not going to materially change things at all.

True. I am in England and would happily pay higher tax to fund better conditions for nurses.

I’m not sure that pay is the be all and end all or even the most important thing though. Most nurses I speak to on wards are sick of being massively understaffed. So it’s a vicious cycle - hectic shifts and having to work over cause higher stress/worse conditions => more likely to leave meaning wards are even worse staffed. If higher pay helps stop trained nurses leaving then it’s a good thing but it’s not the only thing.

I’ll be voting no. This isn’t just about the here and now, it’s about our future pay as well. A one off payment is great but what about next year and the year after that. What about attracting new nurses?

We are worth more.

It’s an offer. Let them talk again and see what happens next.