Page 9 | Am I stupidly poor? Or living in the real world?

Chunkythighss · 2023-03-19T23:50:59+00:00

Just off the back of another post… people commenting that they will have to live off £1900 AFTER paying the mortgage and how this is going to be a struggle. nearly £2000 a month extra. This is more than I earn a month and pay rent, bills, etc… yet people are saying they’d struggle to live on this after bills? Am I massively poor or is this normal? 🙈

Harriyet · 20/03/2023 08:37

Using credit cards each month for food is not living in the real world as your title claims. That's not at all sustainable.

Noname77 · 20/03/2023 08:38

Maverickess · 20/03/2023 00:49

One thing I've learned about MN when it comes to income, if you're the 'squeezed middle' then those things are essential and deserved - if you are on a low income in non professional job then they're extravagant luxuries that you have to work hard for and not expect handed to you on a plate, even if you work ft in a job that benefits society with actual physical work rather than the tax tag that comes with a large salary (like a care assistant for example).

Someone asked here a while ago who the squeezed middle are. My reply was that they're the people who have spent years telling people that it's their own fault they're poor because they don't try/work hard enough and preaching about choices and personal responsibility, and now things have got tough enough to affect them, suddenly it's all not fair and nothing to do with choices or personal responsibility.

£1900 is more than I earn a month, I've made my choices within my earnings because I have to and have been roundly slapped down over the years for daring to think I should be paid a wage I can live on no matter what my job. So I have very little sympathy for people in that situation - they will have to do what they're so fond of telling those at the lower end to do - take responsibility and cut their cloth accordingly - but that's only for poor people apparently.

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The Tory mentality. They don’t realise the Tories couldn’t give a crap about them, because they’re not the super rich.

50shadesofneigh · 20/03/2023 08:39

People live relative to the lifestyle they're accustomed to. So I am definitely what you would call a low earner - household income of about 30k total without children, but I wouldn't think to have a gym membership, or go to exercise classes, or have cosmetic dentistry done, or have a hobby that I have to pay much for, or to always go to a cafe for a cup of coffee when we're on a day out (take a flask/sandwiches), use my local reduced food sell-by date service etc. Someone used to having that lifestyle, though, would find my lifestyle very uncomfortably restrictive and 'poor' feeling, just as I would find their lifestyle uncomfortable extravagant and wasteful, but I feel like I have a perfectly adequate amount of month to cover mortgage, bills, the odd emergency and a very moderate amount of luxuries. So it's all really relative, but Mumsnet does have a high proportion of high earners who spend thousands of pounds a month.

thecatsthecats · 20/03/2023 08:40

Someone asked here a while ago who the squeezed middle are. My reply was that they're the people who have spent years telling people that it's their own fault they're poor because they don't try/work hard enough and preaching about choices and personal responsibility, and now things have got tough enough to affect them, suddenly it's all not fair and nothing to do with choices or personal responsibility.

And it's always delivered with a head-tilt "don't middle income people deserve nice things"?

The deserve nice things attitude fucks me off no end. When I was living alone on a low wage, I could buy myself the odd treat, and it made me happy enough. Walked to the shops and into town, had cheap meals out with friends, the odd takeaway. Those were all nice things.

But the "squeezed middle" call it the height of deprivation not to be at the nail bar monthly in my lease car.

CoolasCucumbers · 20/03/2023 08:40

Are you in the UK @Chunkythighss ?
Just noticed your posting times- middle of the night- but you say you work 8am-6.
How do you cope with so little sleep?!

You say people have £1900 left after paying a mortgage.
That's just under £500 a week.

MONTHLY
Council tax (ours is almost £300 a month)
Utilities- £250-£300 (gas and electric)
Home insurance £70 a month
Food £400

That's all the basics and it's up to £1k a month already

On top of that there is fuel for cars, car insurances, car servicing, MOT.

And then there are the 'extras' that are not essential, such as holidays, subscriptions. clothes, entertainment.

Our DCs are adults, our mortgage is paid off and we don't have any subs for TV or leisure (gym etc). We don't eat out, we don't have takeaways, we don't spend very much on clothes (WFH).

I can easily see how £500 a week won't go far with 2 teenagers at home.

Oblomov23 · 20/03/2023 08:40

@YukoandHiro

"Very few people on here seem to have both parents working in average careers. You can sometimes feel very poor or very well off depending on which thread you read."

This is very true.

Yep. This is me and Dh. Completely normal average jobs. Bog standard. Doesn't really fit with MN Norns at all!

Agree with other posters, once Monthly food at Sainsbury’s and Aldi, rates, electric, small phone bills for us and ds's, all other standard bills, there is nothing left!

Ionlydrinkondaysendinginy · 20/03/2023 08:40

50shadesofneigh · 20/03/2023 08:39

People live relative to the lifestyle they're accustomed to. So I am definitely what you would call a low earner - household income of about 30k total without children, but I wouldn't think to have a gym membership, or go to exercise classes, or have cosmetic dentistry done, or have a hobby that I have to pay much for, or to always go to a cafe for a cup of coffee when we're on a day out (take a flask/sandwiches), use my local reduced food sell-by date service etc. Someone used to having that lifestyle, though, would find my lifestyle very uncomfortably restrictive and 'poor' feeling, just as I would find their lifestyle uncomfortable extravagant and wasteful, but I feel like I have a perfectly adequate amount of month to cover mortgage, bills, the odd emergency and a very moderate amount of luxuries. So it's all really relative, but Mumsnet does have a high proportion of high earners who spend thousands of pounds a month.

Perfectly put this is what iv been trying to say but I don't think I was explaining it well 🙈

Wishiwasatsoftplay · 20/03/2023 08:41

Maverickess · 20/03/2023 00:49

One thing I've learned about MN when it comes to income, if you're the 'squeezed middle' then those things are essential and deserved - if you are on a low income in non professional job then they're extravagant luxuries that you have to work hard for and not expect handed to you on a plate, even if you work ft in a job that benefits society with actual physical work rather than the tax tag that comes with a large salary (like a care assistant for example).

Someone asked here a while ago who the squeezed middle are. My reply was that they're the people who have spent years telling people that it's their own fault they're poor because they don't try/work hard enough and preaching about choices and personal responsibility, and now things have got tough enough to affect them, suddenly it's all not fair and nothing to do with choices or personal responsibility.

£1900 is more than I earn a month, I've made my choices within my earnings because I have to and have been roundly slapped down over the years for daring to think I should be paid a wage I can live on no matter what my job. So I have very little sympathy for people in that situation - they will have to do what they're so fond of telling those at the lower end to do - take responsibility and cut their cloth accordingly - but that's only for poor people apparently.

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This is not entirely fair- I am the squeezed middle and have spent my time telling people on less money or no money no such thing

on a side note- historically, those who are poorest in capitalism tend to talk badly about one another - possible Marx has a valid explanation for this?

SmashedTable · 20/03/2023 08:42

Deathbyfluffy · 20/03/2023 07:55

If you’re not looking for debate, why start a thread on the topic?
This is a discussion forum so of course you’re going to get other views - and even if you don’t agree with them, they’re as valid as yours 🙂

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Disagree. Many posters' views are far from "valid", they are utterly ignorant.

The truth is that a hell of a lot of people are genuinely struggling to pay rent and put food on the table, but the voices of the better off always drown them out. Sometimes, well, a lot really, I wish the whining "deserving" would shut up and listen. No, you don't "deserve it because you worked hard". 99 percent of people are living the lifestyle they were born into. It is extremely difficult to break out of that such are our restrictive systems. If you are making ends meet, sshh and be grateful that you were not confined to a life of poverty by virtue of your birth circumstances.

CoolasCucumbers · 20/03/2023 08:42

Chunkythighss · 20/03/2023 06:42

It’s not a surprise to me that people have different kind of bills, different outgoings? Don’t be ridiculous.

what IS a surprise to me is that people think having a spare £1900 (plus or minus some bills) is a tiny amount of money.

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I'm still trying to get my head round you posting at 2am when you say you work from 8am @Chunkythighss

SunshineAndMonsteras · 20/03/2023 08:43

It would be so much better for so many if they actually planned ahead and considered finances like many on that thread did.
And no, I am not blaming "poor" here or whatever, but so many people just go and get everything to the top of their budget whether it's car finance, mortgage, number of children.

"That sounds like lot left over" can, as many have now learned with inflation, very quickly become "well that's not even tight anymore but a full on straight jacket". And there are only so many things you can get rid off.

isitjustmey · 20/03/2023 08:43

I'm just sick of these threads to be honest. Money is so relative. What's a lot for you is not a lot for someone else. After paying mortgage, Yes we would still struggle to live on £1900 a month. Considering everything else we need to pay for. Childcare already takes £1000 of that and that would leave us with £900. We'd literally be scraping to get by.

SunshineAndMonsteras · 20/03/2023 08:44

The truth is that a hell of a lot of people are genuinely struggling to pay rent and put food on the table, but the voices of the better off always drown them out.

That is not a case on MN, if I am honest.

red78hot · 20/03/2023 08:45

We're living off £2000 BEFORE any outgoings

50shadesofneigh · 20/03/2023 08:45

I also know that we couldn't afford to have a child and therefore we will not be having any. It helps we have no burning desire to have them, of course, but if we earned twice as much then I would be more tempted.

CoolasCucumbers · 20/03/2023 08:45

If you are making ends meet, sshh and be grateful that you were not confined to a life of poverty by virtue of your birth circumstances.

I was born into poverty, living in a flat, with no inside toilet or hot water.

My parents eventually got out of that situation by going to evening classes to get qualifications which took them 7 years (part time.)

They bought a tiny house eventually, and I was lucky enough to go to a grammar school and then university.

Butitsnotfunnyisititsserious · 20/03/2023 08:45

*Disagree. Many posters' views are far from "valid", they are utterly ignorant.

The truth is that a hell of a lot of people are genuinely struggling to pay rent and put food on the table, but the voices of the better off always drown them out. Sometimes, well, a lot really, I wish the whining "deserving" would shut up and listen. No, you don't "deserve it because you worked hard". 99 percent of people are living the lifestyle they were born into. It is extremely difficult to break out of that such are our restrictive systems. If you are making ends meet, sshh and be grateful that you were not confined to a life of poverty by virtue of your birth circumstances.*

But then why bring another child into the world when you are already struggling?

Thefriendlyone · 20/03/2023 08:46

Drakmo · 20/03/2023 07:45

£1900 take home is (depending on pension payment set up) roughly equivalent to £28k which is median full time earnings. So yeah obviously most people don't have that left after housing costs.

No it’s not. The average full time income is 38k. The 28 includes part time workers. But the average full time, median, income in the uk is 38k and higher in London at 41k and then lower in some regions like the north east at 29k. But the overall median is 38k.

BarbaraofSeville · 20/03/2023 08:47

Bills could easily be £1900. Electric, water, council tax, phones, oil, gas, health insurance, savings, food, car repayment, lunches, fuel, transport, nursery, there are loads of things. Then stuff like gym, dentist, presents, dry cleaning, holidays, days out, pets, charitable donations, god the list is endless surely

The list of what you could spend your money on is endless. But it's not all essential, far from it, and certainly not at the level that many on here seem to think of as 'basic'. A lot of the 'our bills, food, travel costs are X' are way above average which means there is an element of choice involved.

Just because you run out of money before you run out of things to spend it on doesn't mean that all the things you are buying are essential or need to cost as much as you spend on them.

QWERTTY · 20/03/2023 08:50

Hey OP, I have £1700 a month to spend on mortgage, bills, food, petrol etc. it’s tight but I manage. I thought this was a decent amount of money so really surprised reading that for many, it isn’t. I can’t change it though so can’t be feeling jealous of what others have, I’m lucky to have what I have and be able to cover our mortgage, bills and run a car.

AxolotlOnions · 20/03/2023 08:51

Ionlydrinkondaysendinginy · 20/03/2023 08:33

Because the op was saying about how £1900 isn't enough spare for some people to live on which for me is loads but someone with high outgoings it wouldn't be. Reading this thread people on here are saying they have outgoings of £3000 for bills alone as my bills are £700 ish a month and this is what I mean when I say its irrelevant what you earn as it usually reflects your outgoings

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It is not irrelevant at all. Just because you have that amount coming in does not mean you have to spend it all. People on low incomes HAVE to spend a large percentage, if not all, of their income, people on high incomes do not. It is a choice. If your choices leave you with no savings and no back up plan then you are mismanaging your funds and I will not feel sorry for you.

You don't HAVE to have the big house, you don't HAVE to send your children to private school, you don't HAVE to have your hair done at expensive salons every month, you don't HAVE to have the expensive gym membership/iphone/horse riding lessons/car/holidays. And if you lose everything due to poor financial planning it is your own fault.

Greensleevevssnotnose · 20/03/2023 08:53

Tesco

Ionlydrinkondaysendinginy · 20/03/2023 08:56

AxolotlOnions · 20/03/2023 08:51

It is not irrelevant at all. Just because you have that amount coming in does not mean you have to spend it all. People on low incomes HAVE to spend a large percentage, if not all, of their income, people on high incomes do not. It is a choice. If your choices leave you with no savings and no back up plan then you are mismanaging your funds and I will not feel sorry for you.

You don't HAVE to have the big house, you don't HAVE to send your children to private school, you don't HAVE to have your hair done at expensive salons every month, you don't HAVE to have the expensive gym membership/iphone/horse riding lessons/car/holidays. And if you lose everything due to poor financial planning it is your own fault.

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No matter how much you plan a significant life event like a death or disability would change everything. Yes you don't have to have all them things but if I was earning 10k a month I would want a nice house, a car and holidays I don't think that, that's unreasonable. You seem to think a rich person should live the life of a poor person just in case

tabulahrasa · 20/03/2023 09:00

Mumsnet is a weird place when it comes to money... I’ve been on threads where people on 85k+ are insisting they’re not high earners just because they manage to spend it all on what they consider essentials, others insisting they’re the squeezed middle because they can’t afford the lifestyle they think they should.

But at the same time there’ll be a thread where people pick apart a low earners outgoings as being extravagant because they have a phone.

PrettyMaybug · 20/03/2023 09:06

Some people just don't seem to realise or acknowledge how massively overprivileged they are. The fact that anybody has £2000 left after the mortgage or rent is paid, and is saying 'poor me, poor me, feel sorry for me' is just absolutely ludicrous.

Most of the people in this country would give their left arm to have £2000 left after the mortgage or the rent. Some people say 'it's all relative,' and what if they've got bigger outgoings? If you have got bigger outgoings then downsize and reduce them. Cut your cloth according to your coat, like ya know, POORER people have to.

Some people are so wilfully overprivileged and narrow minded than they actually think £2000 left over is 'not much.' (And £100,000 a year income is 'actually quite difficult to live on really.') I'm actually genuinely embarrassed for them. They have no idea what it's like to struggle. No idea whatsoever. It actually sickens me, to be honest.