Preferred pronoun labels at childrens event

[StopitSarah]

I took my primary age children to a science event this weekend. It’s run by university students. Almost all of them had their preferred pronouns on their name labels.

AIBU to feel that was unnecessary and to feel a bit uneasy? One of my children wanted to know why “the man is saying we should say he/him. Isn’t that obvious?”

I asked one of the students who said it was to show support to any trans helpers and was for the benefit of the (adult) students, not the children.

I’m SO BORED and irritated by the trans agenda being every-bloody-where.

But AIBU? I had a good chat with one of the students and he said that they’re all science students and understand that woman = biological female is too simplistic. My brain exploded.

Why would you NOT allow people to be who they feel they are? How does it harm you for the nice chap down the street to ask to be referred to as the nice lady down the street? If Eddie Izzard nicely asks that people use the name Suzy instead as that's what they prefer?

It's the vitriol that gets me - if someone says that 'being gay is a mental illness, we clearly were born / made to have only male/female relationships, that's basic biology' they'd be seen as a massive bigot. Yet it's ok to say that you're being 'indoctrinated' to ask to believe that some people are born identifying as the opposite gender?

History won't look kindly on your viewpoint, just as we criticise those who actively discriminated against LGBTQ people 20 years ago.

I’m maybe too new and still learning but I don’t see the issue. I’m a scientist, 100% people can’t change sex as it’s biology. It’s just your genetics. How ever much someone has an op etc.

However I have no issue with someone identifying as a man or woman if they are the opposite sex. What’s the concern? As long as they are happy not sure why it’s affecting me?

Exactly!
I'd see their point if when you got through the door you were made to wear one too, but others doing it isn't intolerant to you at all as you dont have to wear one!
Unless intolerant in this sense means you can't wear one because seeing your badge upsets me 😕
Erm, that would make you the one enforcing behaviours there......

That's an article from a highly biased source (a specifically anti-trans website).
The loaded language again. Anybody who dares to question the ideology is "anti".

The truth is that nobody cares if you think that you are trans. We are not anti-trans, we are pro safeguarding and Women's Rights

@Jewel1968 that’s a really interesting point. The trans adults I know look trans. They wouldn’t “pass” as the opposite sex although they dress in a gender stereotypical way so it’s clear whIch sec they are trying to present as.

How does it hurt women to remove their rights to single sex spaces in order to pander to male feelings? Can you seriously not use your own brain to work that out? This is such first world privileged nonsense, do you think women facing the Taliban are able to opt out of being a woman?

And as for the "you're all just bigots and no better than a racist" type of silly arguments -

This is the only so called "marginalised " group in society whose demands, if they are met wholly will result in ...

• girls and women losing out places in sport,
• girls and women losing out places in industry awards and recognition
• dangerous sex offenders being housed with in womens prison accommodation
• young people being led on by lies to go on puberty blockers, cross sex hormones and the removal of perfectly working body parts.

So no, to conflate these concerns with racism/homophobia is s lazy and disrespectful and a false comparison

So you’re happy to put men in women’s prisons, in women’s sport, in women’s changing rooms? If as someone with PTSD from childhood abuse, I ask for a female nurse for my smear, there’s no problem if I’m given a male who claims to be a woman? Why would you throw women under the bus and put us at more risk, for the sake of male demands? Are you a male supremacist, because that’s the only reason that makes sense.

Oh God the Taliban again
Seriously ...

Well tell us, can women facing the Taliban, opt out of being a woman, or is this a privileged, first world, naval gazing load of bollocks after all?

My main issue was that the pronouns were not relevant to the children. This was a childrens event. The pronouns were to make any trans (adult) students feel ok. Being trans has nothing to do with the children who have come to an even to learn about physics and chemistry and anatomy (ha!). It’s about making the (one that I noticed) trans or non binary adult feel ok and never mind the confusion to the children attending. A significant number of children with SEN would have passed through during the day who might find this seemingly random labelling even more baffling than the NT children.

It felt like trans propaganda in a very low level way and totally irrelevant to the event.

I think in 20 years we will be horrified that we coerced a generation into thinking their bodies could be “wrong”. Our bodies are not wrong.

It’s harmful when the “nice chap down the street” wants to be referred to as the “nice lady”, but only on Tuesdays, when he wants to go to the women only swimming session at the local pool. And he’s allowed to go, because on Tuesdays he’s a woman.

I don’t understand why this is so hard for people to grasp.

Or if you like, forget the Taliban, let’s look at our own history. When women couldn’t vote, get credit, own property etc, we’re they able to identify as a man and get handed all those rights? Were transwomen banned from those things on account of being women?
No. Our oppression is sexed based, it is not because of how we identify.

Just curious - what is your position on transwomen in women's sports, bathrooms, changing rooms, DV shelters, prisions etc? Are you okay with all of that? Given that the majority of TW are intact males who are sexually attracted to women. If other women are not okay with it - because they are rape or DV victims, because of their religion, because they are now passed over at a sport they love or because they fear injury during sport or because they feel vulnerable and uncomfortable being in a state of undress with males present - does that not bother you? Should everything be unisex in your opinion?

Confused children being led to believe they can easily change sex and being given drugs that harm them as a result. Lesbians being told they are bigoted for not wanting to sleep with males. Being threatened.

This is not normal imo, far from it. I support transpeoples right to dress, present how they want, use whatever name they want etc, without discrimination, but other groups of people have rights too. What's happening at the moment is not balanced.

History won't look kindly on your viewpoint, just as we criticise those who actively discriminated against LGBTQ people 20 years ago.

This. People are quite rightly viewed as being awful for having homophobic views now.

I’m incredibly grateful to the many people who have articulated so well why I felt uncomfortable. I will be emailing to let the organisers know how I feel. Thank you. Can I encourage anyone else to send email feedback to organisers of events (especially for children) that push this gender ideology. It’s really hard to put your head above the parapet on this one, but it’s necessary I think.

To the posters who have called me a bigot etc, this clearly hits a raw nerve. I find any comparison with homophobia or racism highly offensive.

I have spoken to my dc about racism since they were small and continue to keep that an active conversation. Now they’re older, we talk about homophobia a bit more too.

I don’t lie to my children so I’m ok with saying “Billy now wants to be called Bethany” but I’m not going to ever say “billy is now a girl”. They’re old enough and smart enough to know that’s not true anyway.

Misogyny is still cool though

There was a post recently by a woman who’d been in a toilet in a pub at the same time as a transwoman. The OP didn’t make a drama out of it, acted normal, usual small talk etc and they both commented that the hand towels had run out. OP said she’d have to dry her hands on her jeans, and transwoman said she’d dry her hands on her penis. Then walked out.

To me this sums up what is happening these days. Yes there may be a small number of people with genuine gender dysphoria, but I think that there are far more men who just want to shock. They want attention. They want to punish women and humiliate them. They want to invade our spaces and mark their territory, show us who’s boss. It’s not the 1950s any more. Women have jobs, money, power, often more than men do. And some men don’t like it, so they’ve had to find another way to put us in our place. And what better way than dressing up like us and making us feel uncomfortable in our own places.

Of course not all transwomen have this mindset, but plenty of them do, and that’s why we shouldn’t pander to the movement as a whole.

It’s bullshit. I was in a supermarket and there was a person with an enormous lanyard (think large dinner plate size), that said they were transitioning and their pronoun was ‘she/her’. It was obviously nothing but attention seeking as I can’t think of any need in a supermarket for anyone to know this. It’s not like people go up to random strangers and chat in a way this would be relevant. Generally a checkout operator, if going through manned not self-operated, will ask ‘how are you today/are you having a good day’, that’s the extent.

People need to start pushing back on this shit . No wonder so many young people suffer mental health issues . Life is hard enough without worrying about what you are .

@Naunet what the hell are you on about? No biological men can compete in female sports that’s just silly. That would be an unfair advantage. In no way shape or form is that what I said. In places like smear tests, jails etc the biological sex still stands and I doubt a trans person would put themselves in that position?

Why have you jumped to calling me names? You seem so angry? Has someone trans tried to do a smear on you against your will?

Please can you give me some stats, are most people trans wanting to compete in sports or do a lot of them work in the medical field? Do they want to do smear tests on women? Just wondering if this is more a fear that’s being projected or if you have stats…after all im a scientist so any peer reviewed data you can provide would be great.

I just don’t have an issue with someone walking down the street being male or female if they are biological the other sex. It’s not affecting me. Happy for you toy provide some peer reviewed data though, as I said I’m new to this and trying to learn

I find any comparison with homophobia or racism highly offensive
It's exactly the same as it used to be in the 80s with section 28 where kids weren't allowed to know about LGBT issues though.
The same arguments playing out across this thread.
"Indoctrination "
"Kids should just be kids, they shouldn't know about being gay/trans"
"Its pushing an agenda to make them aware"

I"d rather they know about LGBT people existing, that its OK to be so.
Knowledge doesn't automatically mean you'll catch gay or trans.

There is nothing discriminatory about recognising someone's sex

It's the ideology that's harmful, not the people. I am sure most trans people are lovely (though some of the militant activists are indeed violent and threatening.) Transmen are less of a threat to men than transwomen are to women. Sport is not an issue for men and neither is men's physical safety a problem. Men's privacy in bathrooms/changing rooms is an issue and some are very uncomfortable about this.

I do feel sympathy for trans people and I support them, but I just don't think we should forget about everyone else and that's what's happening. I'd like to support everyone and their competing needs and talk and work things out. Not have an ideology forced upon us all.

How old were you when Section 28 was in force?