Page 16 | NHS - this is why people don't care

br0kenankle · 2023-03-16T20:14:37+00:00

In peads A&E with daughter as went over on ankle and it swelled up like a balloon. Been hear 1 hr 30 mins. Paeds A&E not busy - maybe 3-4 patients. Staff everywhere - must be about 10 people milling around tbe computers doing very little. No wheel chair so have been carrying her round the hospital to X-ray , toilet etc. Just seem to be on a go slow. If I were this slow at my job, i would be in trouble. 🤷&zwj;♀️ Expect to get flames for this of course. We were sat outside X-ray for 10 mins and when they came out, they didn't realise we had been sitting there. I have a hungry grumpy in pain 6yr old.

Redkettle · 18/03/2023 10:25

SmileyClare · 18/03/2023 10:13

To add, I don’t think op and her dd were failed by the NHS at all in her example.

Attended A and E ; triaged, referred to paediatrics, offered biscuits and crisps by a nurse who saw them waiting, examined, x rayed and sent home within about 2 hours.
Re called the following morning when an orthopaedic consultant had reviewed the x ray, treated and provided after care.

What the fuck is the complaint?

Agree wholeheartedly with this

SmileyClare · 18/03/2023 10:51

walkies123 · 18/03/2023 06:49

@Fordian how is a Nigerian unqualified?
Anyone from overseas has to ensure their qualifications are our equivalent. If not they have to top up up their qualification. Without that they can't get registered with the NMC.
So I don't understand what you mean about Nigerians?????

“untrained Nigerians” was a clumsy comment, it’s never wise to make sweeping generalisations based on race.

However, to put this into context;
There has been an unprecedented influx of Nigeria nurses into the UK and although there are criteria to ensure their training is adequate (a multiple choice exam and written English test) the vast waiting times (6-12 months in some areas) to access these mean it is now permitted to nurse in a UK hospital provided the exam date is booked at some later date.

The stipulation that they worked a trial period under supervision has also now been abolished. In part due to severe staff shortages.

I have every sympathy for the poster who is so disillusioned and poorly treated in her nursing profession she hands in her notice, despite years of good service and a vocation for nursing.

MoggyMittens23 · 18/03/2023 11:17

Coffeewinecake · 18/03/2023 08:27

I assume pp means free at the point of care - the average person will pay £2700 per year (2020 figures).
Obviously some will contribute more NI others less, some none. Likewise, some will be heavy users and so on.

Cancer treatment from all the diagnostic tests, treatment (ops, chemo, radiotherapy, lines, drains, inpatient stays), pain killers, follow up scans for 5 years, outpatient appointments, doctors, nurses, physio, OT, CNS etc will cost hundreds of thousands, maybe more.

The biggest financial outlay for the NHS is probably type 2 diabetes (the life long prescription free treatment across all drugs) and all the complications that go with it.

I am not sure how much it costs to have a healthy baby in hospital but I have heard of people being give a huge bill when they delivered in America without insurance ($10 000? Don’t quote me on that).

So yes, the NHS is not free but the overall outlay is minimal compared with the costs of some of the most commons treatments and you don’t need to think twice about how to pay for it when you find a lump.
The downside to this is that the service can be abused.

I would have preferred to have a response from that poster tbh, rather than people giving well thought out arguments on their behalf which I have a funny feeling they wouldn't have had.

Anyway, I am aware of all the points you have mentioned...

I don't think it's very helpful for people to be saying it's free when it's not. Some people pay a fuck ton of tax and can't even get a GP appointment.

Why compare to the American system? I am not saying that is any better, that has it's own problems. But that doesn't mean we should be grateful for what we have! Do you not think it needs any changes then? We should just suck it up because it's 'free' and not as bad as in the US? sorry, no.

Emotionalstorm · 18/03/2023 11:24

I agree with you. I think they should sell the NHS. You can get seen instantly in the US and the service is fantastic there (my cousin lives there).

Emotionalstorm · 18/03/2023 11:25

Also I would be interested in buying shares in whatever entity takes over the NHS. It's simply not sustainable to have state run hospitals.

memorial · 18/03/2023 11:29

Emotionalstorm · 18/03/2023 11:24

I agree with you. I think they should sell the NHS. You can get seen instantly in the US and the service is fantastic there (my cousin lives there).

How much do they pay then

Coffeewinecake · 18/03/2023 11:31

I pay a “fuck ton of tax” and hopefully will never need to use my share NI due to health issues. A relative of mine has never worked (was the traditional housewife) and is a heavy user of the NHS. Those who meet a threshold of income pay into the system for society as a whole. I don’t begrudge anyone that - being ill or having a family member that is ill is extremely frightening and stressful.

I am not comparing the NHS to the American system - I used the cost of delivering a baby in hospital in the US when uninsured as a rough indicator of cost (i.e. a lot more than an average individual pays in NI per year), as i don’t know how much it costs here.
In most countries there is an element of medical insurance that the individual has, either through work or paid for themselves.

memorial · 18/03/2023 11:33

SmileyClare · 18/03/2023 10:13

To add, I don’t think op and her dd were failed by the NHS at all in her example.

Attended A and E ; triaged, referred to paediatrics, offered biscuits and crisps by a nurse who saw them waiting, examined, x rayed and sent home within about 2 hours.
Re called the following morning when an orthopaedic consultant had reviewed the x ray, treated and provided after care.

What the fuck is the complaint?

Absolutely the entitlement and expectations are crazy.
I was working GP OOH on the weekend. Patient symptoms started 4am. Rung 111 7 am. GP appt 9 am. Out by 9:15am with the appropriate scrupt. Still.managed to complain her GP wasn't open. Sunday morning. Erm I'm a GP I also work in the week.
Not a clue what she was complaining about.

memorial · 18/03/2023 11:35

Redkettle · 18/03/2023 09:57

The trouble with the UK is the notion that you cannot say anything negative about the NHS. If this is the case, how are problems ever addressed? While a short wait in a and e isn't anything major, most people are waiting 18 hours in ambulances and can't get seen and dying in corridors. Infection control is out the door and you go in now with in thing, you die from something else you catch when you go in. It's a mess and keeps me awake at night. That doesn't mean I don't appreciate the amazing people who work there, but after my mum just died at home I'm sat feeling grateful it wasn't in a hospital bed from covid or c diff like a lot of my friends parents have done, after being admitted for a completely different issue

most people are not. The loud scare mongering shouting one's are the ones you here.
most people are being cared for sufficiently in an under resourced understaffed public health service.
Be very careful what you wish for

Emotionalstorm · 18/03/2023 11:37

memorial · 18/03/2023 11:29

How much do they pay then

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Nothing, their employer pays for their health insurance.

Mercurial123 · 18/03/2023 11:46

br0kenankle · 17/03/2023 13:02

Hospital called. They have changed their minds. It is fractured. Back to hospital

Interestingly when my son hurt his arm last year, we called 111 and they booked him an appt at the minor injuries unit. He was seen, xrayed, and plastered up in about 1 hour. Maybe we should have done that instead .

You're hard work.

memorial · 18/03/2023 11:48

Emotionalstorm · 18/03/2023 11:37

Nothing, their employer pays for their health insurance.

Show quote history

And those without employers? Who can't afford health insurance?
You know rhe one who are dying from lack of overpriced insulin ?
Don't big up the US system based on fully insured employed people. Are we just planning on fucking everyone else then??

MoggyMittens23 · 18/03/2023 11:50

Coffeewinecake · 18/03/2023 11:31

I pay a “fuck ton of tax” and hopefully will never need to use my share NI due to health issues. A relative of mine has never worked (was the traditional housewife) and is a heavy user of the NHS. Those who meet a threshold of income pay into the system for society as a whole. I don’t begrudge anyone that - being ill or having a family member that is ill is extremely frightening and stressful.

I am not comparing the NHS to the American system - I used the cost of delivering a baby in hospital in the US when uninsured as a rough indicator of cost (i.e. a lot more than an average individual pays in NI per year), as i don’t know how much it costs here.
In most countries there is an element of medical insurance that the individual has, either through work or paid for themselves.

That's great that you don't mind paying into the (shit) system. So, you don't think it needs changing then?

I never said I begrudge anyone who doesn't pay into it for using it either.

Alexandra2001 · 18/03/2023 12:04

walkies123 · 18/03/2023 06:49

@Fordian how is a Nigerian unqualified?
Anyone from overseas has to ensure their qualifications are our equivalent. If not they have to top up up their qualification. Without that they can't get registered with the NMC.
So I don't understand what you mean about Nigerians?????

My DD would tell you a different tale, not specifically about Nigerians but on "equivalence".... language and written skills can be very different to what we would consider acceptable.
Then there is familiarity with drugs and medical practice, its pretty obvious that a nurse trained in a poor and a developing country will not have the same level of training as a UK trained nurse.

The NMC... on instruction from Govt .... decreed standards would be lowered to help them meet that 50k nurse target.

Lisdeflores · 18/03/2023 12:05

I'm not a doctor but I would imagine that if there is a lot of swelling around a joint a fracture might be difficlt to spot. It's not a matter of the NHS changed their diagnosis the x-ray would of been reviewed by someone more senior with greater experience who was able to spot the fracture, this is a safety check not a incompetencence.
As someone who has cancer, from the moment of my diagnosis my treatment has been excellent and I'm still here and have a future.
I don't doubt that there are problems within the NHS but there is also excellent care from professional staff although not so many people are keen to start threads about this as it doesn't fit with the NHS is failing narrative that some people are keen to promote.

Coffeewinecake · 18/03/2023 12:06

No, I don’t mind paying into the system. I don’t think it’s shit either - those who are live in poverty, have low incomes, massive outgoings or no insurance do not need to worry about how to fund their healthcare. That’s not to say I don’t think it needs improving.

Alexandra2001 · 18/03/2023 12:16

That's great that you don't mind paying into the (shit) system. So, you don't think it needs changing then?

The system is broken because we in the UK pay far less per person than, for example, France or Germany.

We have less Doctors, less beds and less equipment per capita too & hence lower levels of care and worse outcomes.

The NHS is currently undergoing a £14bn cost cutting program.. much of that money will be saved on buildings mtce and cuts to IT.

If the NHS is stop being "shit" then it needs greater investment in these two areas (at least) but the idea is to run it down to such an extent that people such as your good self will want it sold off.... mostly to foreign companies.

... and once it is, just like with water, rail and energy.. it will all be too late and impossible to re nationalise due to the costs & those three industries are serving the public sooo very well aren't they?

Emotionalstorm · 18/03/2023 13:47

memorial · 18/03/2023 11:48

And those without employers? Who can't afford health insurance?
You know rhe one who are dying from lack of overpriced insulin ?
Don't big up the US system based on fully insured employed people. Are we just planning on fucking everyone else then??

Show quote history

It will make more people who can work but don't work actually do some work if their healthcare is linked to employment. No system is perfect so there will be some people who fall through the net but the benefits outweigh the disadvantages.

memorial · 18/03/2023 13:50

Emotionalstorm · 18/03/2023 13:47

It will make more people who can work but don't work actually do some work if their healthcare is linked to employment. No system is perfect so there will be some people who fall through the net but the benefits outweigh the disadvantages.

Show quote history

Wow. You think the threat of not having access to healthcare will make people work? What a terrible sentiment.

UndertheCedartree · 18/03/2023 13:58

The day shift was probably finishing and the day shift starting. 'Chatting around the computers' was probably handover. And there may have been staff not busy, e.g an HCA may have finished their jobs, but they can't review an X-ray, it would have to be a doctor. I think you're just showing your ignorance of how a hospital is run.

fiftiesmum · 18/03/2023 14:44

The US system is wonderful - if you have an employer who hasn't been boycotted by an insurance company because they have an employee with an expensive illness. What about deductibles and co -pay and lifetime limits particularly on Medicare.
OP - you have discovered that secret - all NHS staff spend their days on Mumsnet chattering and laughing over posts instead of poring over your Dd's x-rays.

MoggyMittens23 · 18/03/2023 14:45

Alexandra2001 · 18/03/2023 12:16

That's great that you don't mind paying into the (shit) system. So, you don't think it needs changing then?

The system is broken because we in the UK pay far less per person than, for example, France or Germany.

We have less Doctors, less beds and less equipment per capita too & hence lower levels of care and worse outcomes.

The NHS is currently undergoing a £14bn cost cutting program.. much of that money will be saved on buildings mtce and cuts to IT.

If the NHS is stop being "shit" then it needs greater investment in these two areas (at least) but the idea is to run it down to such an extent that people such as your good self will want it sold off.... mostly to foreign companies.

... and once it is, just like with water, rail and energy.. it will all be too late and impossible to re nationalise due to the costs & those three industries are serving the public sooo very well aren't they?

Well that's not the only reason.
I would happily pay more for a good service it's just not ideal when you are paying a lot for not a lot
You've completely lost me at people like me would want it sold off? What? Why are you making stuff up? And if it was THAT bad, would people like your 'good' self not want something doing then either?

MoggyMittens23 · 18/03/2023 14:47

Coffeewinecake · 18/03/2023 12:06

No, I don’t mind paying into the system. I don’t think it’s shit either - those who are live in poverty, have low incomes, massive outgoings or no insurance do not need to worry about how to fund their healthcare. That’s not to say I don’t think it needs improving.

Ok I think there are two different points here.

You are talking about how it's not shit because people who have no money can access it. Ok, we both agree on that and that has not and never been one of my points......that has nothing to do with the service overall

My very first point was how it wasn't free and it's not helpful to say that it is and so we should all be ever so grateful. I don't know why you keep bringing up about not begrudging people using it and how it's not shit because they can. I have never said otherwise.

ImAGoodPerson · 18/03/2023 15:24

br0kenankle · 17/03/2023 13:02

Hospital called. They have changed their minds. It is fractured. Back to hospital

Interestingly when my son hurt his arm last year, we called 111 and they booked him an appt at the minor injuries unit. He was seen, xrayed, and plastered up in about 1 hour. Maybe we should have done that instead .

If you have a minor injuries unit near you why wouldn't you have gone there? For a straight forward suspected break/fracture then surely that's the most sensible option. My toddler broke his leg and we went to minor injuries, no need to call 111. Took 2 hrs from leaving home to getting back home incl xrays, plaster etc.

When DS dislocated his knee we waited for nearly 3 hrs for ambulance then were at a&e about 4 hrs, if we had a choice to go to minor injuries we definitely wouldn't waste A&E time.