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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

NHS - this is why people don't care

399 replies

br0kenankle · 16/03/2023 20:14

In peads A&E with daughter as went over on ankle and it swelled up like a balloon. Been hear 1 hr 30 mins. Paeds A&E not busy - maybe 3-4 patients. Staff everywhere - must be about 10 people milling around tbe computers doing very little. No wheel chair so have been carrying her round the hospital to X-ray , toilet etc.

Just seem to be on a go slow. If I were this slow at my job, i would be in trouble. 🤷‍♀️

Expect to get flames for this of course. We were sat outside X-ray for 10 mins and when they came out, they didn't realise we had been sitting there. I have a hungry grumpy in pain 6yr old.

OP posts:
Smilethoughyourheartisaching · 16/03/2023 22:46

And regarding the lack of communication, their answer would have been we don’t know whether it is broken.

br0kenankle · 16/03/2023 22:48

I haven't been rude to anyone or insulted anyone but I have been called so many names including a cunt for suggesting that the paeds a&e was ineffective and slow. And I was called a troll. I wonder if the people throwing insults at me would say that to me face.

Anyway, I'm done now. Maybe one day we will have a functioning health service.

OP posts:
Smilethoughyourheartisaching · 16/03/2023 22:48

Smilethoughyourheartisaching · 16/03/2023 22:46

And regarding the lack of communication, their answer would have been we don’t know whether it is broken.

What would you have liked them to communicate to you?

Cupofteaaa5 · 16/03/2023 22:50

br0kenankle · 16/03/2023 22:48

I haven't been rude to anyone or insulted anyone but I have been called so many names including a cunt for suggesting that the paeds a&e was ineffective and slow. And I was called a troll. I wonder if the people throwing insults at me would say that to me face.

Anyway, I'm done now. Maybe one day we will have a functioning health service.

You have actually been very rude to all the staff you've criticised when you have no idea what their jobs actually entail, or what is going on. You assume to know. But you don't know.

The reason people have insulted you is because you are coming across as not a nice person.

Kindofthisnotthat · 16/03/2023 22:50

@Bunnyfuller according user name search you had an MI at 51.
Obviously docs and those lazy fecking nurses helped save your life or was that all BS ?

XenoBitch · 16/03/2023 22:54

br0kenankle · 16/03/2023 22:48

I haven't been rude to anyone or insulted anyone but I have been called so many names including a cunt for suggesting that the paeds a&e was ineffective and slow. And I was called a troll. I wonder if the people throwing insults at me would say that to me face.

Anyway, I'm done now. Maybe one day we will have a functioning health service.

It was functioning. If it was not, you would be posting about your DD in a week's time, after spending days in A&E.

Thestreets · 16/03/2023 22:57

br0kenankle · 16/03/2023 22:48

I haven't been rude to anyone or insulted anyone but I have been called so many names including a cunt for suggesting that the paeds a&e was ineffective and slow. And I was called a troll. I wonder if the people throwing insults at me would say that to me face.

Anyway, I'm done now. Maybe one day we will have a functioning health service.

I would absolutely say that to your face, and more. You have no idea what healthcare staff in our a&e departments deal with on a daily basis. I've never been so enraged by a thread in my life!

You were seen, diagnosed and discharged within 2.5 hours which according to the government standard is nearly 50% less waiting time than should be expected. Your attitude disgusts me and blatant refusal to acknowledge that actually those "milling around doing nothing" had no influence on the speed of your diagnosis as it was sat with the radiographer waiting to be reported. Educate yourself and adjust your attitude, you are an extremely entitled, unpleasant individual.

youshouldnthaveasked · 16/03/2023 22:58

Your only complaint is that you had to wait a little while to receive your child’s results. Of which a specialist is required to report on. The service was very much functioning well. Would you have liked health care assistant 3 to interpret the X-ray?

Yetanothernewidentity · 16/03/2023 23:13

I kind of agree with you OP. Have name changed as outing but DH needed emergency surgery a few years ago, and while we were waiting literally witnessed a HCA take around an hour to stick a notice on a door. Once surgery had happened, consultant and his team waiting at DHs bedside for god knows how long while someone looked for bandages which he (the consultant) had requested. He eventually went to get them himself after getting visibly more and more annoyed ( understandably after wasting his and his team's time for ages). Post leaving hospital, we had a query and tried to speak to his secretary and no-one actually seemed to know where she was or what her extension number was.
However do have to say that a lot of people we came across ( consultant, his registrar and lots of the nurses/ admin staff) were absolutely lovely. Completely agree re lack of communication through.

SmileyClare · 16/03/2023 23:13

Apologies @Bunnyfuller for accusing you of sock puppetry.

Theres something so off about this thread though.
Even repeatedly using the word “bimbling” is making me cringe.

Bunnyfuller · 16/03/2023 23:28

@Kindofthisnotthat and hopefully, having read this thread, and others I have talked about my MI on, you will see I have nothing but praise (mostly) for those involved in my care. You may have read my threads here where I have repeatedly talked specifically about Paeds A and E, and my experiences there. Alternatively you could just be dismissive and knee jerk to one piece of information

XenoBitch · 16/03/2023 23:33

@Bunnyfuller I think you have said you work for the police?
Now, imagine if OP was instead moaning about seeing cops walking down the street chatting away, when she had a relative that was waiting for the police after being a victim of crime. Moaning about all the cops walking along with a Costa, when her relative had been waiting 3 hours for someone to come see her.

PartingGift · 16/03/2023 23:34

br0kenankle · 16/03/2023 22:30

daughter was playing on her switch. She is in bed now.

The whole attitude on this thread is why no significant change will ever come to the NHS. We need to be able to say when it is a bit crap.

If I were misdiagnosed with cancer should I just say 🤷‍♀️oh well, people were probably busy so it's ok.?

We are conditioned to accept the crap service because it is the NHS and never question it. That is crazy

Being misdiagnosed with cancer is quite different to being seen, x rayed, and sent home in 2.5 hours.

bakebeans · 16/03/2023 23:38

br0kenankle · 16/03/2023 20:25

It's not free. I pay a
Lot of tax. I do have private cover which we can use once she is diagnosed

lots of us pay tax and some of that tax goes to the government, fire, council, police, immigration, military. May be you should write to your MP and ask for your money back!

GettingThereCharleyBear · 16/03/2023 23:40

From the photo I think you could have fairly safely surmised it wasn’t serious. 2 1/2 hours for a sprain is not bad at all.

The reason the NHS is broken is because of lack of staff and the reason for lack of staff is partly because of delightful people like you.

Bunnyfuller · 16/03/2023 23:54

@XenoBitch again. - the devil is in the detail. I did not condone the opin her comments on the consultant eating. Lunch breaks are mythical in public services.

Office based police - I’m the first to be annoyed at chat time. Front line/coal face - literally no time. We do t have ‘waiting for x y z’ we have deal and next call (more like ambo).

I don’t know how to say it more specifically- my experience in Paeds A and E has included a significant number of nurses stood chatting socially for extended periods, visibly, whilst the waiting room was packed. They were not with patients, getting drugs, communicating, taking notes, doing procedures, administering CPR, doing Obs.

They were chatting. About life, the universe and everything. They refused to seek answers or communicate kindly.

This may be a badly run ED. But please do not dismiss lived experience.

I haven’t mentioned the dismissive paramedic who was more scared than me when my ecg showed massive STemi in progress. Who tried to bullshit and withheld morphine ‘because you’ll be sick’

The NHS is great, until it isn’t.

smileladiesplease · 17/03/2023 00:01

'Someone in scrubs?!'

Right!!!

HollyBerri · 17/03/2023 00:09

My daughter is a peads nurse. Sometimes she comes home and there have hardly been any patients. Last week she was in tears twice as understaffed, full ward and 2 complex cases who should have really been having 1 to 1 care. The latter situation happens much more frequently but they don’t know what cases are going to be admitted.
You have no idea what was happening behind the scenes. I think 2.5 hours is a reasonable time from arrival to being fully treated so am not sure what you are complaining about.

melj1213 · 17/03/2023 00:15

Tbh the pasting the OP has got on this thread is why the NHS will never change - how dare anyone question the efficiency of the NHS when every single doctor, nurse, HCA and admin assistant is constantly rushed off their feet at all times and if you say otherwise you're a liar, a troll or just don't understand how the NHS works.

People have been adamant that the OP is wrong despite not being there; "just because it doesn't look busy doesn't mean the staff aren't busy" etc but having been both inpatient and outpatient frequently I have seen first hand how inefficient some wards/departments are. Yes some staff can be multitasking and spinning 1001 plates at the same time but equally there are often times where there is massive inefficiency and general lack of any kind of urgency that should be addressed. We should not have to be grateful that we got out of A&E in 2.5hrs when we could have been out in 1.5hrs if things just happened quicker (emergencies and urgent issues notwithstanding obviously)

For example, last year I was taken into hospital as my iron levels were dangerously low (as in I had a blood test and the GP called me to say there must have been a contaminated sample as it was showing as so low I should not have been conscious so I needed to do another test ... Did the retest at 2pm, was told I would get a call the following day and by 7pm the OOH doctor rang me to tell me to come in immediately, and if I wasn't able to get someone to bring me in then they would send an ambulance to collect me) I needed an immediate iron transfusion.

First one I had in A&E, no issue as I essentially walked in and was whisked straight through as they knew I was coming.

The follow up one I had to have via the hospital day unit. Turned up to the unit which was one single large room, a reception desk, a bank of 5 desks (all occupied by at least one nurse) on one side and about 10 little pods of chairs set into groups of 4/5 with about 3 other people already in the room and hooked up to various infusions.

I walked in and waited at the reception desk for five minutes as various nurses and HCPs stood around the desks chatting. I assumed the receptionist was on a break or off doing something so I eventually asked one of the nurses at the nearest desk (who was working but also recounting her weekend away to her desk neighbours) who I needed to sign in with as I'd been waiting a while for the receptionist and it was almost my appointment time. She just said "Oh we don't have a receptionist in this unit today, what was your name? Yep I can see you're on our list. Iron infusion is it? Just take a seat over there for me and Mary will be over to pop your cannula in and get your transfusion set up in a minute"

Why could she not have spoken up immediately when she saw me waiting? How long would I have been left waiting if I didn't interrupt their conversation? Why did no member of staff ask "Hi, can I help?" when they could clearly see me waiting at the reception desk and they knew they didn't actually have a receptionist?

So, once I took a seat I waited for Mary to come over and insert the cannula ... 20 minutes after I sat down Mary came over with a hospital band for me to wear and then went off again to gather the stuff to put the cannula in which took another 5 minutes. In the intervening 20 minutes Mary had been doing what I would call "busy work" - tidying the equipment shelves and making a list of items they were low on (she was discussing this with another staff member at the desk as they couldn't agree on the number she should order as they were due a delivery the following day etc), wiping down chairs that nobody had been sitting in, organising the files at the desk - that was not urgent and could just have easily been done after she tagged me and put my cannula in so my treatment could get started.

Once I finally had my cannula in and the transfusion hooked up, the machine would occasionally beep as it needed adjusting. The same happened to the couple of other people who were there before me. Every single time the machines would beep, none of the staff came to check them until the person who was hooked up to the beeping machine asked them to come over, once they did so pretty much every time something needed to be adjusted, so it's not like it was just a "you're nearly done" heads up beep it was a "there's an issue" beep.

When my transfusion was finished the machine beeped to say so, and the bag was clearly empty, so Mary came back over to check the machine and stop the beeping. I was then told "Right, that's you done just give me a minute and I'll be back to unhook everything and you're good to go" ... I was then left for another 40 minutes before being unhooked and the cannula removed as every time I asked if someone could come and remove everything I was told "I'll be with you in a minute," and then left again and again until I actually had to say "Its been 40 minutes since my transfusion finished and you've been saying you'll be over in a minute for that entire time. If you can't come and unhook everything then I'll do it myself as I don't have all day to sit here" (I had an important meeting I'd been waiting months for with one of DDs consultants and I had to get across town to attend it and time was just ticking away) at which point she actually came and unhooked everything.

I could understand if the unit was busy, every seat was occupied or there was lots going on, but the whole time that I was there there were no more than 5 patients and about 10-12 staff all milling around the unit. The couple of patients who came in after me all had the same treatment - no communication when they arrived and then absolutely no rush to get them dealt with - and from the tail end of the patients who left before me they all had the same treatment of zero urgency, so it's not like my experience was a one off they just seemed to work under the impression they had all the time in the world. If that is what they were like when it's quiet, I can only imagine how slow things would be if the unit was at full capacity.

I am sure some of them had specialist jobs and others weren't trained that meant they couldn't step in, but from the conversations I got to listen to during the hours I was sat there they all worked on that unit (so nobody popping in to do paperwork on a free computer); none of the staff left the unit while I was there except one who was going on a break and another who went to pick up some files and was gone for 5minutes before coming back so they clearly weren't covering 17 other departments at the same time; they were discussing their workload and the follow ups/prep they were doing for their patients etc as well as their social lives but not one of them were proactive with dealing with the patients in front of them.

If they had put the patients first then we would all have been treated and out of there at least an hour sooner than we were. Am I grateful for the treatment? Of course and I don't envy the work they have to do, but as someone who works in retail and is expected to drop everything for customers and do everything to make their experience as efficient and pleasant as possible, then it was just jarring to walk into a hospital where there was no sense of urgency or prioritising the patients over other jobs.

scaryeleneve · 17/03/2023 06:15

br0kenankle · 16/03/2023 22:48

I haven't been rude to anyone or insulted anyone but I have been called so many names including a cunt for suggesting that the paeds a&e was ineffective and slow. And I was called a troll. I wonder if the people throwing insults at me would say that to me face.

Anyway, I'm done now. Maybe one day we will have a functioning health service.

You really need to take a good look at yourself.

'Maybe one day we will have a functioning health service' - from the parent who was in, seen, treated and out of ED in 2.5hrs. What isn't functioning?

The worst bit from your posts is your total ignorance and utter refusal to take anyone's comments on board and rationalise them to your own experiences. Says a lot about the dreadful type of person you are.

It is simply stupid to decide the entire NHS is crap because of 1 bad experience in 1 part - and you didn't even have a bad experience.

youshouldnthaveasked · 17/03/2023 06:28

melj1213 · 17/03/2023 00:15

Tbh the pasting the OP has got on this thread is why the NHS will never change - how dare anyone question the efficiency of the NHS when every single doctor, nurse, HCA and admin assistant is constantly rushed off their feet at all times and if you say otherwise you're a liar, a troll or just don't understand how the NHS works.

People have been adamant that the OP is wrong despite not being there; "just because it doesn't look busy doesn't mean the staff aren't busy" etc but having been both inpatient and outpatient frequently I have seen first hand how inefficient some wards/departments are. Yes some staff can be multitasking and spinning 1001 plates at the same time but equally there are often times where there is massive inefficiency and general lack of any kind of urgency that should be addressed. We should not have to be grateful that we got out of A&E in 2.5hrs when we could have been out in 1.5hrs if things just happened quicker (emergencies and urgent issues notwithstanding obviously)

For example, last year I was taken into hospital as my iron levels were dangerously low (as in I had a blood test and the GP called me to say there must have been a contaminated sample as it was showing as so low I should not have been conscious so I needed to do another test ... Did the retest at 2pm, was told I would get a call the following day and by 7pm the OOH doctor rang me to tell me to come in immediately, and if I wasn't able to get someone to bring me in then they would send an ambulance to collect me) I needed an immediate iron transfusion.

First one I had in A&E, no issue as I essentially walked in and was whisked straight through as they knew I was coming.

The follow up one I had to have via the hospital day unit. Turned up to the unit which was one single large room, a reception desk, a bank of 5 desks (all occupied by at least one nurse) on one side and about 10 little pods of chairs set into groups of 4/5 with about 3 other people already in the room and hooked up to various infusions.

I walked in and waited at the reception desk for five minutes as various nurses and HCPs stood around the desks chatting. I assumed the receptionist was on a break or off doing something so I eventually asked one of the nurses at the nearest desk (who was working but also recounting her weekend away to her desk neighbours) who I needed to sign in with as I'd been waiting a while for the receptionist and it was almost my appointment time. She just said "Oh we don't have a receptionist in this unit today, what was your name? Yep I can see you're on our list. Iron infusion is it? Just take a seat over there for me and Mary will be over to pop your cannula in and get your transfusion set up in a minute"

Why could she not have spoken up immediately when she saw me waiting? How long would I have been left waiting if I didn't interrupt their conversation? Why did no member of staff ask "Hi, can I help?" when they could clearly see me waiting at the reception desk and they knew they didn't actually have a receptionist?

So, once I took a seat I waited for Mary to come over and insert the cannula ... 20 minutes after I sat down Mary came over with a hospital band for me to wear and then went off again to gather the stuff to put the cannula in which took another 5 minutes. In the intervening 20 minutes Mary had been doing what I would call "busy work" - tidying the equipment shelves and making a list of items they were low on (she was discussing this with another staff member at the desk as they couldn't agree on the number she should order as they were due a delivery the following day etc), wiping down chairs that nobody had been sitting in, organising the files at the desk - that was not urgent and could just have easily been done after she tagged me and put my cannula in so my treatment could get started.

Once I finally had my cannula in and the transfusion hooked up, the machine would occasionally beep as it needed adjusting. The same happened to the couple of other people who were there before me. Every single time the machines would beep, none of the staff came to check them until the person who was hooked up to the beeping machine asked them to come over, once they did so pretty much every time something needed to be adjusted, so it's not like it was just a "you're nearly done" heads up beep it was a "there's an issue" beep.

When my transfusion was finished the machine beeped to say so, and the bag was clearly empty, so Mary came back over to check the machine and stop the beeping. I was then told "Right, that's you done just give me a minute and I'll be back to unhook everything and you're good to go" ... I was then left for another 40 minutes before being unhooked and the cannula removed as every time I asked if someone could come and remove everything I was told "I'll be with you in a minute," and then left again and again until I actually had to say "Its been 40 minutes since my transfusion finished and you've been saying you'll be over in a minute for that entire time. If you can't come and unhook everything then I'll do it myself as I don't have all day to sit here" (I had an important meeting I'd been waiting months for with one of DDs consultants and I had to get across town to attend it and time was just ticking away) at which point she actually came and unhooked everything.

I could understand if the unit was busy, every seat was occupied or there was lots going on, but the whole time that I was there there were no more than 5 patients and about 10-12 staff all milling around the unit. The couple of patients who came in after me all had the same treatment - no communication when they arrived and then absolutely no rush to get them dealt with - and from the tail end of the patients who left before me they all had the same treatment of zero urgency, so it's not like my experience was a one off they just seemed to work under the impression they had all the time in the world. If that is what they were like when it's quiet, I can only imagine how slow things would be if the unit was at full capacity.

I am sure some of them had specialist jobs and others weren't trained that meant they couldn't step in, but from the conversations I got to listen to during the hours I was sat there they all worked on that unit (so nobody popping in to do paperwork on a free computer); none of the staff left the unit while I was there except one who was going on a break and another who went to pick up some files and was gone for 5minutes before coming back so they clearly weren't covering 17 other departments at the same time; they were discussing their workload and the follow ups/prep they were doing for their patients etc as well as their social lives but not one of them were proactive with dealing with the patients in front of them.

If they had put the patients first then we would all have been treated and out of there at least an hour sooner than we were. Am I grateful for the treatment? Of course and I don't envy the work they have to do, but as someone who works in retail and is expected to drop everything for customers and do everything to make their experience as efficient and pleasant as possible, then it was just jarring to walk into a hospital where there was no sense of urgency or prioritising the patients over other jobs.

This is a poor experience. Did you explain your issues to PALS?

However, this is nowhere near the OPs complaint. They were literally waiting for a radiologist and in and out very quickly. And the OP is ignoring the many people who have tried to explain this, so either very dense or just very difficult, likely both.

ExasperatedbyJanuary · 17/03/2023 06:35

I sympathise with OP and with @melj1213

This thread is an example of how people love to bash an OP. She’s made the very factual point that the NHS is inefficient and all the holier-than-thous have come for her.

Of course the NHS is inefficient! And it’s not just because sometimes people bimble about taking forever (though I’ve seen that) but also because of the mind-boggling levels of bullshit and box-ticking built into the system. At our local minor injuries, you have to see three different people and tell them the exact same details from the start. The system is riddled with bullshit and there’s very little the workforce can do about it. Have you seen the box-ticking community midwives have to do? Dear god. It must be 100% worse in A&E.

cryinginhmart · 17/03/2023 06:40

Yes, it absolutely makes sense for your one personal experience to be then projected to make an assumption about the entire NHS. Brilliant.

I’m a teacher (literally nowhere near the stress level of the NHS - just an example of a random job) and you could look in on my lesson on a Tuesday and think, “wow! The children are working so nicely and sensibly - why do teachers complain about behaviour?!” when you’re seeing literally one class at one moment.

The NHS is obviously not perfect and I’ve experienced being fobbed off multiple times with my chronic illness but this is just flawed logic.

ExasperatedbyJanuary · 17/03/2023 07:08

@cryinginhmart I’m a teacher too, and I’d use a different analogy. If I could be left to get on with the important business of planning and teaching my lessons, and interacting with the students, I’d be a lot more efficient. Instead, I have to wade through unbelievable amounts of bullshit, form-filling, report-writing and other nonsense. Well, this is what happens in th NHS too. Medical staff sitting at computers are trying to fend off the massive admin monster that eats up everyone’s time. They’re not treating patients. It’s inefficient.

IamtheDevilsAvocado · 17/03/2023 07:14

br0kenankle · 16/03/2023 20:24

It means why people who are not in the NHS
Struggle to empathise .

Just had someone stop by and despite going to X-ray 30 mins ago, and there was no one waiting after us, apparently they haven't sent the X-ray through yet.

So yeah it seems like a go slow . Lots of chatting over the computers. It's a mini paeds a& e. Easy to see it isn't busy

How you know they're not discussing patients??

When i was ij nhs a lot of us 'chatting' was this! We weren't ignoring patients...