To think the Tories are clever?

[ClassicLib]

They are introducing a massive pension tax cuts for their rich mates in the city, and selling it by claiming that it might also persuade a few rich NHS consultants to delay their retirement to their second homes in France for a couple of years.
And who is paying for this? Why you & me, of course, because our basic rate & higher rate tax allowances are being frozen until 2028. This is actually a massive income tax increase for ordinary working people, of course. And the media have fallen for their spin.
That’s smart politics…

They don’t understand economics that’s why. We aren’t talking about the millionaires or billionaires with huge wealth. We are talking about those who have studied hard for a profession, worked their way up and yes get paid well, yet they pay the most tax out of everyone. That fact that people can’t see the issue with a 35k pay rise and you’d take home less - is the reason the economy is tanking. The highest tax contributors are lowering productivity to stop working for a net loss; it’s not rocket science.

Exactly.

@Blossomtoes Did I miss it when Tesco’s CEO was nominated to represent all British business? The business owners and CEOs that I know are probably 80% conservative, and despite intense frustration with the party over past 5 years, would never consider Labour a better alternative.

The head of the Confederation of British Industry, leading chief executives and other prominent economists (including, via videolink, former Bank of England governor Mark Carney) all turned up for a Labour event.

They did so because in much the same way as their predecessors did in 2009, they can see which way the wind is blowing. They aren't bothered about pledges like the one about economic growth.

They care about the fact that these people may soon be in government.

news.sky.com/story/financial-chiefs-attending-starmer-speech-is-significant-they-can-see-which-way-the-wind-is-blowing-12821442

So now the heads of big business apparently have the best interests of the citizens of the country at heart? Last week supermarket bosses were parasites sucking up welfare so they could underpay their staff. I can't keep up.

Why are people incapable of a rational discussion about supporting rational policies that would actually have a positive economic effect and raise living standards? Why does it always have to be sucked into this partisan nonsense?

All of the politicians on both sides of the House are utterly useless.

Just in case somebody's been living under a rock and hasn't noticed.

The implication that how the tiny number of uber-wealthy choose to vote should be an indicator of what is best for the entire country, is not only odd, it's also self-contradictory, unless you are one of the hard of thinking that still contends that 'trickle down' economics is actually a real thing.

@Blossomtoes again, there will always be a selection of business leaders in either camps having a handful at a press event does not imply broad support or even a meaningful shift. The majority do not see labour as a viable alternative.

The evidence doesn’t support your view.

www.reuters.com/world/uk/britains-labour-party-works-become-the-party-business-2022-12-16/

@Blossomtoes that isn’t evidence, and the fact you don’t realise the difference between data and a promotional piece is exactly why you don’t seem to be able to follow the discussion

Reuters is a promotional piece? Right you are.

@Blossomtoes reporting onLabours ‘aspirations’ is not evidence of achievement. But you seem to believe whatever aligns with your preconceived notions.

will also refer you to the utter hypocrisy of vaunting CEO endorsements given your political alignment

No i can't .... your dead right but than neither does the UK, check out HMRC tax rates.

How about looking at the actually evidence?

UK has terrible growth, productivity and public services and relatively low tax rates compared to European countries, who tax more.... we had low (19%) corp tax rates since 2015? yet have seen a fall in foreign investment... Germany with 30% and France with 34% have seen theirs increase.

Even with a retirement age of 62, France does better than the UK and does not have the Labour shortages we do.... better productivity = less people needed & they protest unlike the roll over British.

They are not clever OP. They just have the support of a corrupt press.

Like The Guardian.

Right wing press far out weighs the any left leaning ones & its not just the press, the BBC backs the Tories too, unless you think Richard Sharp and Robbie Gibb are not strong Tory supporters?

Productivity isn’t just a measure of how much workers produce. It’s also a measure of how much is invested.

Productivity is low because our government does not invest in infrastructure- by that I mean public transport, healthcare, schools, roads etc.

The countries that do, will encourage business investment because business owners know that staff, customers and suppliers can get around, that staff and customers are healthy etc.

Government spending money is a good thing - eg if they build and maintain schools/hospitals, not only does it benefit the population but it also provides jobs eg for construction companies.

Government paying workers decent wages is a good thing because it will boost the economy as people have money in their pocket and can spend it on discretionary things.

The conservatives are ultimately narrow minded because they fail time and time again to invest as a government and businesses will always find them out. They have this bizarre idea that only the rich are worth supporting.

Its utter fallacy and is why we are yet again the sick man of Europe. Back again where we were in the late 80s/early 1990s. And New Labour, just carried on elements of this thinking and missed the opportunity to actually make us a stronger country.

^this

They are certainly masters of spin. WRT home energy - keeping the cap at £2500 (as we enter the warmer months so how much will it actually benefit most people?) but taking away the £66 support in March - so we’ll still be paying bloody more!!

Yes right wing press and media not reporting that the current cap is an effective £2100, it will increase to £2500 and even less help for any business, including Hospices.

Yet energy costs across Europe for consumers is falling.

Given the wholesale gas price is less than it was a year ago, why is the price I pay still rising?

Because of our stupid privatised model when it comes to energy.

We have wholesale energy producers and retail energy companies.

We “buy” energy from the retail companies who are effectively middle men who “gamble” on the energy price. They buy it in advance from wholesalers and because of when they bought it (when prices were high), they pass that cost on to us.

Our energy market is pretty unique and designed to make companies rich. It’s why fully priviatised markets for such things are so stupid.

Prices were high because wholesalers whacked up prices - hence their massive profits. They didn’t need to, but thought that they’d get away with it under cover of war.

Exactly. It answers your original question. No other country has this issue.

When you have a country that has an effective tax rate over over 100% in some earning brackets - it stops us doing as well as other countries. It’s really simple. You can get a 35k pay rise and still be worse off in some cases. I mean only the experts, the IMF have highlighted this is a major issue. What would they know compared to a random mumsnet poster. Honestly.

Don't ask the question if you’re not capable of listening to the answers.

@Lostinalibrary I would be interested to read the IMF’s take on this- is it posted on thread?

Wouldn't you have thought that our government who cares about women because they know what one is, would have done something about a rigged market in the last 13 years?