Differences between boys and girls

[MollyRover]

I've just come back from a morning helping out on a school trip, children are 4 - 6 years old, including my DC1. Myself and DH do this periodically so know the children well. Last time I did it was October.

One thing that really struck me this morning (haven't noticed it previously) was the frankly toxic behaviour of the boys, especially the older ones. Constantly trying to trip others up, pulling at the girls hands, sleeves, hair, pushing eachother, being generally rough and nasty. The teachers seem to pair them off with better behaved children, mostly girls, who are then afraid to speak up when on the receiving end of their horrible behaviour. When I told any of the boys to stop, they completely ignored me apart from seeming surprised that I had dared to tell them off.

Did I imagine this? Is this normal in boys of this age? AIBU to be worried about the girls in the group? It seems to me that they've already resigned themselves to being treated like this and they are just so little.

Normal school in a normal area of a medium sized city, you're as likely to see a brand new Range Rover Evoque outside it as a clapped out Ford Ka. Very mixed student base, ethnically, socially etc.

I wouldn’t describe 4-6yo behaviour as ‘toxic’

I don’t think it’s ‘typical’ boy behaviour at all. But equally I really don’t think it’s ok to be using girls as peacemakers.

It sounds like abysmal behaviour management by the school rather than a ‘boy’ problem.

@CantAskAnyoneElse well that’s a load of bollocks 🙄😂!

The weeping and wailing that goes on here about that awful invented term “Gender disappointment” 🤬 whenever someone finds out they’re having a boy would suggest it’s very much NOT somewhere where boys are liked or wanted. So yes, us “boy mums” do not get defensive sometimes when this is repeated ad nauseum.

My DGDs are very clear about how awful the boys’ behaviour at primary school is, how it impacts on learning and in the playground too. They’re both keen on attending a single sex secondary school.
That said, they have some perfectly nice friends who are boys.

Meant to add this was not the case when DS and DD were at school in the 80s/90s.

Yeah agree in some cases. Children's party and same age range. Children's performer there. One particular child could not give a single shit, messing around loads, wouldn't listen to a word the performer was saying despite them having to stop multiple times because the other children couldn't hear. Not a child with any known problems. Apparently fine at school. After when it came to the food a few boys then starting throwing food everywhere 🙄the host quite a timid woman and didn't say anything so another parent from the party did ask them to stop but they weren't bothered in the slightest. This was in someone's house. Bet they don't start food fights at their own houses!!!

And yes not all of them. Mostly the boys were lovely but 4-5 were wrecking it for the others..

No wonder there are so many entitled grown men about, it seems a lot of them get a free pass as children.

Personally, I have no idea about nature, but I do remember being absolutely furious when a couple of 4 year olds were scuffling in the school playground and the mums were like, "oh, boys will be boys". it made me realise that from a very young age the expectations are different.

Men don't spring out of nowhere they are boys first.

Men, many of which are lovely, but as a sex make up, the vast majority of criminal offenders, are responsible for the vast majority of violence in our society, and many of whom treat women like second class citizens and play things for their sexual enjoyment.

NABALT just as NAMALT, but problematic behaviour in men surely often starts with problematic behaviour in childhood. Again, not always.

I don't know how much of it is nature vs nurture, but things like 'oh they are just a bit boisterous', 'its what boys are like', boys will be boys etc is teaching boys that they can get away with it. Is it any surprise that some take that attitude through to adulthood? Girls in the other hand are quickly initiated into the role of support human, and putting their own feelings below the boys. Girls are expected to behave better, to sit nicely, to behave, in a way that many boys are not, and its frustrating.

I see the difference (on average) in behaviour in the school yard. I see it at birthday parties, with girls not able to go on the bouncy castle because there boys are dominating it and being 'boisterous'. Girls put next to certain boys to help them, and to keep them calm.

As a matter of interest, how is your son's behaviour? What would you do if he behaved towards other children the way I and pps have described above? What would you expect teachers to do?

I came on to say exactly this.

Not all boys.

Not every class.

But you do get some classes where parenting / personalities and whatever else combines to create a ‘core’ group of boys for whom it is socially more rewarding to behave badly than to to stick to the rules.

It’s really tricky for a schools when that happens - they can mix up classes each year, do all sorts of interventions with individuals and small groups, but its really hard to dislodge once its in place. And it means the quieter boys and the girls miss out on lots of things - no PE as people messed around, 10 minutes off break time as people wouldn’t stop talking, no trips as behaviour has been so bad, no time for golden time because lessons have been so disrupted… it goes on and on.

So with this abysmal behaviour management (as you call it) by the school, the girls behave fine but the boys are little terrors.

Still sounds like a boy problem to me…

No it's a staff problem because small children behave in a way that maximises the rewards they get from adults - the approving looks and laughs

And staff sound very sexist and approve of boisterous boys

@MollyRover i have two. The eldest is incredibly well behaved and a model student - always has been. The second is a bit more lively and is often in trouble for talking in class - there are consequences for this and he is working hard on being more respectful with a combination of support from us at home.

I’m a teacher so I would expect them to do what I would do and deal with it. My class would never have behaved like that as they knew there would be consequences. I didn’t do boy/girl but I wouldn’t let kids who I knew couldn’t behave go with friends who were a bad influence on them.

Interestingly my very well behaved older son is often made to sit between two girls to stop them endlessly talking 🤷‍♀️.

@GettingThereCharleyBear what consequences? And how would you deal with it?

I don't think this extent sounds normal

Have volunteered on a handful of school trips in the past year or so year 3 and 4

Not noticed same extent of behaviour that you describe

Often a few children (of both sex) who were in the class teachers group so they could keep a closer eye on them

Do not think it's a "boy" thing

More a disruptive child thing, regardless of sex

Have 2 DD and 1 DS as well as 2 Dnieces and a DNephew. the girls are far louder, and rougher than the boys when they're in a group! 🤦‍♀️

Teacher here for 25 years, secondary school. Boys behaviour is ALWAYS worse than the girls, more silly, louder, attention seeking. I've worked in 3 schools. More boys in school DT with ratio of about 3 girls to 7 boys most days. There is a definite toxic masculinity amongst certain boys. It's depressing. I like teaching both boys and girls but the boys definitely require more managing.

I haven’t noticed this level of bad behaviour but from going to many parties I’d say they have a tendency to be more rambunctious. Running around, maybe pretend sword that kind of thing.

Dc age 9. Doesn't occur like this. Poor management. Normal school