Differences between boys and girls

[MollyRover]

I've just come back from a morning helping out on a school trip, children are 4 - 6 years old, including my DC1. Myself and DH do this periodically so know the children well. Last time I did it was October.

One thing that really struck me this morning (haven't noticed it previously) was the frankly toxic behaviour of the boys, especially the older ones. Constantly trying to trip others up, pulling at the girls hands, sleeves, hair, pushing eachother, being generally rough and nasty. The teachers seem to pair them off with better behaved children, mostly girls, who are then afraid to speak up when on the receiving end of their horrible behaviour. When I told any of the boys to stop, they completely ignored me apart from seeming surprised that I had dared to tell them off.

Did I imagine this? Is this normal in boys of this age? AIBU to be worried about the girls in the group? It seems to me that they've already resigned themselves to being treated like this and they are just so little.

Normal school in a normal area of a medium sized city, you're as likely to see a brand new Range Rover Evoque outside it as a clapped out Ford Ka. Very mixed student base, ethnically, socially etc.

@JassyRadlett this all sounds very plausible, interesting insight

@WherezMyRulebook seems very similar to the sort of stuff I observed today. It is worrying both as a parent of a girl and a parent of a boy.

My same age DC’s class was not like this when I accompanied a trip. I didn’t spot a boy/girl behaviour difference. But I absolutely believe that with some classes/teachers/schools that difference does show up in the way you describe.

I agree SOME boys can be too boisterous, rough and annoying in their behaviour towards others at excitable times. So many things could impact on that as well. Dare I say I wonder what the parents allow/are like never mind

Would it be different if your child was the little girl in receipt of this boys behaviour? Whilst out on a trip the girl shouldn’t have to be extra careful/well behaved because her partner can’t behave properly especially as there’s roads and strangers about

We have a cluster of boys like this in DD1s class, the teacher and TA are amazing and stamp out any unnecessary/unkind behaviour immediately, we had a soft play party and they were punching each other, throwing food, ect I spent a lot of time correcting their behaviour which was dissapointing. We did exactly the same party for the same age 15 months later for DD2 and they were all so well behaved and an absolute delight.

I would say so far the girls are probably more mean to each other though especially from about 7/8 and its a lot more subtle and can be very isolating and unkind

I agree that parenting has a part to play and could be the case with some of the boys however one of the worst offenders today has lovely parents, one a primary school teacher. Another I have known since early reception as my child would be friends with him and he has suffered from behaviours related to anxiety etc- not like this, more being scared, quiet etc. Parents are also lovely and I know them pretty well.

It's clear from this thread that while it doesn't feature everywhere it does feature, and the behaviour seems contagious if ignored- which clearly happens. "Boys will be boys", "Let the well behaved child be a good example (sic- teacher's assistant)" etc

I wouldn’t bother raising it with the school, if they cared it wouldn’t be this way. Just move your DD to a different school.

Twas ever thus 😬

For obvious reasons we wouldn't want to do that. It wouldn't solve the problem anyway, as far as I can see everyone seems to be letting this slide. I want to raise it but I'm not sure how or with who, or what the most constructive way to do this would be.

For clarification, the little girl that I spoke to today was not my daughter but she is someone's daughter.

I would say the behaviour you describe is not typical because most schools would nip it in the bud. Do you think they are routinely not pulled up on it in your child's class?

Just wait until you come across groups of preteen girls....

I don't know, honestly, I'm not there often enough to determine that. The last 2 times I've volunteered have been walking trips so obviously stressful, I could understand the teachers ignoring it on a trip out because they've so much else to deal with in contrast to being in a controlled environment in the classroom.

I went on a walk once with my son's class when they were in P1 or P2 (Scotland), so aged 5 or 6. They were filing down the road in pairs to go see a horse working in the forest or something. The teachers/assistants were keeping them occupied with simple sums. I was really stunned at how many of the girls declared themselves to be 'rubbish' or 'no good' at maths at such a young age! Like how could they possibly know this? Where are they hearing this? Other girls were agreeing and saying 'yeah me too, i'm rubbish at sums' and it seemed to just spread! The boys were shouting out all sorts of answers, some correct, some just nonsense but none of the boys said they were 'bad at maths' like the girls did! My son is P6 now and the kids who are known to be good at maths in his class are predominantly boys. I always wonder if those little girls wrote themselves off and just decided maths wasn't for them and what a shame that is, did it become a self-fulfilling prophecy?! I am a female who studied maths at uni and my course was roughly 50/50 split so this was a bit of an eye-opener for me!

It seems obvious to me that you’d move your kids from a school with this kind of culture.

I’m aware the girl you spoke to wasn’t your DD. Has your DD not started this school yet? It’s just your DS?

I don’t really understand why you can’t see that one person can’t change the mentality of an school. The fact that you don’t even know who to raise it with is part of the problem. You can talk to the head but if the head thought this kind of behaviour was a problem they would be on it and it wouldn’t be happening. You will likely just get fobbed off.

From my observations with my own children I've not noticed toxic behaviour from little boys but I have noticed that they like to be rougher with one another than girls do but not any less noisy or excitable.

I work in a secondary school and I am noticing that oldrr children in general have become more boisterous and what I can only describe as over stimulated. They push and shove in the corridors and playgrounds, they run around screeching and shouting all the time, they seem unable to sit quietly for a second. Many of them are up all night on their devices and are over tired and strung out. Combine that with a bottle of prime or some other sugary muck and they are either trying to sleep or totally frantic.

I have both girls and boys and IMO how each sex behaves is largely down to parenting and as an extension of this, personality type. Our son is quite thoughtful, sensible, studious and not what you would call 'rough and tumble' - like his dad and me as well I suppose. His sisters are similar personality types. Friends sons though are definitely more the wreck your house and garden with a football while rolling around the floor fighting type of child though, but their parents are much more boisterous and out-going.

Agree with this. You are talking about very young children here. Calling them toxic little shits doesn't sit well with me.

Fwiw this isn't my experience of boys. I agree they can be more energetic, rough, loud and well, boisterous. But girls can be sneaky and mean. This isn't the case for all girls or all boys. Sounds like you just had a rowdy bunch today.

Personally I think a lot of it is what you allow them to do, I would not allow my son or daughter to behave in an unkind manner to anyone. I say that also as someone who was verbally and physically bullied by girls at secondary school.

My son is six and I would describe him as energetic and loud. I have never been told by a teacher that he's hurt/upset another child and honestly can't think of a time he's ever been physically violent. A lot of posters on this thread seem to think loud and energetic are code for violent or something but it's not always the case.

A mother of a little girl in his class has told me all about her daughter's struggles with other little girls, forming cliques and leaving her out etc.. already at the age of six/seven. I think that's much more "toxic".

Obviously the behaviour the op witnessed may have actually been violent. Just always feel the need to stick up for loud little boys who wouldn't hurt a fly since I have one myself. Off to get him from school now!

Just that IME most (not all) boys are more physical, girls are more verbal. Boys need to learn to use kind words, boys need to use kind hands.

@Dyslexicwonder I can't argue with that!

@WherezMyRulebook This is not a small thing and it should be discussed with the teacher. If someone doesn't like playing a game with you then they don't have to play it. The teacher can help those children to have ways to express "I don't want to play/I don't like this game/this is not fun for me" and to listen to that message. It's actually really important social development and the teacher can definitely help. It's also an important part of training to only accept enthusiastic consent later. I want to do this vs I will put up with this are very important distinctions for people to understand.

The thing I really object to is the staff using female pupils as pacifiers rather than actually tackling the root of the problem themselves. It’s lazy and they’re not considering the impact on the girls. Imo it’s totally unacceptable.

I bet that technique continues up the school and the boys just get bigger.

The behaviour from the boys is not acceptable, but it's perhaps more worrying that the girls are not reporting it. Why aren't they reporting it? Have they been discouraged from doing so? Or have they learned that it makes little difference when they do?

I think I would be raising it, but not as a "girls vs boys" issue - the problem is that there is a group of boys who either think this behaviour is acceptable or know that they can get away with it. And the kids who are not involved have presumably learned that it's something they just have to put up with - which should not be the case.

Different classes or year groups have different "cultures" and can sort of embed different behaviours.

I would raise your concern with the class teacher, as they may not be seeing it as you are or they may be able to talk you through the strategies they have in place for dealing with it. It may well have come from outside school, but there will be some things that can be done to help even if it remains somewhat of an issue.