Should childcare be paid for and other benefits given just for having a child/children?

[Sunshine236]

Does everyone think childcare should be paid for?

It's controversial but why do some people feel entitled to be monetarily supplemented because they’ve had a child?

It’s surely a lifestyle choice and people should ensure they can afford to have children?

For sure there should absolutely be a safety net for those who have had children and circumstances change seeing them need urgent support, but I’ve read people earning £100k are receiving some kind of support each month and now we're looking to provide further free childcare.

There are so many other issues such as social care, NHS funding etc that need funding which money could go towards, rather than supplementing people who are already receiving a decent salary just because they’ve had a child/children?

I'm torn on this, as in an ideal world I would want IVF on the NHS but with a limited budget it would not be a priority. Things are so nuanced and tricky aren't they!

So all the couples wishing to start a family will be living frugally and spend as little as possible for three or four years to save up for one child, then another three or four if they dare to wish for another. That would do wonders to the local economy 😃
It‘s weird how subsidized childcare is regarded as something utterly outrageous by some people on here, whereas it’s the norm in many other countries. Many women in those places simply return to work when their child is one or one and a half (because childcare is affordable), instead of saving up for years.

Honestly! It would be funny if it wasn’t so tragic. I’m supposed to have 120k just chilling in my bank by the time I hit 30 so that I can cover the costs of childcare alone for two kids, nevermind putting a roof over their heads and feeding them and clothing them. Oh, and saving up a years worth of salary to cover my maternity leave!

And for the record, I’m not suggesting that ideally people will plan for and save for their children - just to be clear on that. It’s absolutely important that parents take responsibility and have appropriate money to care for their children. But when childcare is costing me 15k a year, on top of the economic climate being what it is (rent in my area for a 2 bed is £1200 a month!) and wages not rising, it’s imperative the government recognise that childcare costs are just too high.

Well, living alone (instead of sharing bills) is a choice. Not going to uni and graduating before age 24 is a series of choices. Not deciding that one wants kids at an early age is a choice. These and many other choices, such as occupation, our standards for the people we date, how we spend, where we choose to live, etc. have consequences.

The world doesn't owe us each and every thing that we 'want.' We have to plan, strategize and work toward our goals. And unless we are lottery winners, there are trade-offs throughout life.

As one who personally has worked, lived frugally and saved, I know for a fact that it can indeed be done.

You've not had kids so know fuck all about funding them

Guess you have had a family and no problem conceiving?

Presumably having secure accommodation would be a top priority in terms of planning before starting a family? Rental accommodation is certainly not that in this country, at this time. So as part of the extensive planning and saving process, a couple must also save a deposit and buy a house. Now we're talking £50k to account for deposit and nursery fees, before even considering saving for mat leave and other expenses relating to new children.

The fact that you apparently think this is achievable for all couples who want to have children is the reason you are coming across as delusional.

I’m afraid this is going around in circles. My sister didn’t choose to be dyslexic and to spend a further two years at college attaining the required qualifications for entrance to her four year university course.

Sure thing Zelda. Let’s teach our children to choose what they want for their entire lives by the time they’re 18, so they can start saving the moment they finish school. Before they finish school even! And let’s hope no health complications, no pandemics, no cost of living crisis or any other out of control situation attempts to step in and impact all those choices we’re all so very in control of!

18 is probably already a bit late, they could start when they’re 12 or 10 😃

What do you say to this @ZeldaWillTellYourFortune ?

I can do simple arithmetic to determine what I can, and cannot, afford.

I never said that external forces or involuntary misfortune do not affect our options in life; of course they do. But those are the breaks. Most people don't get everything they want out of their short time here on Planet Earth, one way or the other. Demanding that others provide it anyway is ... not admirable.

The ridicule in recent posts toward the notion of sober and strategic planning, preparing and saving for what one wants ("it's impossible" "it's delusional") is a sad reflection of so many people's current willy-nilly approach to procreation, and outsize expectation that fellow citizens are obliged to pick up all the slack.

"ridicule in recent posts toward the notion of sober and strategic planning, preparing and saving for what one wants ("it's impossible" "it's delusional")"

Nobody has ridiculed this. Nobody said it was "impossible". Nobody said it was "delusional".

Quite a few people said your opinions were delusional, which they are. This is evident from the majority of your posts, now including this most recent one - you are deludedly implying that people are ridiculing the notion of planning before starting a family. That is not what is happening here. What is being ridiculed here is your extremely self-assured by ultimately uninformed opinions in this matter.

But you've never actually done it, so you can't possibly really know. Quite why you think you're in a position to lecture anyone about something you have no experience in I don't know.

Hi everyone!

Please can you take 10 minutes to complete my survey for my dissertation.

It is about how you feed your child and their eating behaviours.

Please ensure that you are:

• Currently residing in the UK
• Over 18
• A parent of a preschool aged child (3-5 years old)

lboro.onlinesurveys.ac.uk/parental-feeding-practices-and-eating-behaviour-survey

Thanks in advance!

I assume you’re against universal healthcare then? And free schooling?

Since when did having children become the prerogative of people with money? Some people really do need to give their head a wobble and wake up and live in the real world. If the principles spouted here were applied to all social funding there would be no NHS (unless you've paid, so sorry kids nothing for your!), benefits of any kind; state pension etc etc etc . Children are literally our future, financially and socially. A lack of investment in them is a very cold society at best. Some societies actually want and love children.

Most people will agree that a certain level of planning is necessary when starting a family.
But when you say “Most people don't get everything they want out of their short time here on Planet Earth, one way or the other.” - why try to support each other at all? Why have a NHS or any kind of welfare state?
Why not just say “It’s survival of the fittest, no one is entitled to any help whatsoever.”
This thread is not about people getting everything they want, it’s about parents (mostly mothers) having access to affordable childcare which enables them to work and pay taxes while raising young kids.
It’s really not such an outlandish concept, many other countries have been doing it for years if not decades.

@ZeldaWillTellYourFortune I didn’t read all of the posts in detail. You said you have no kids, is that correct? Did you choose not to have any because you never got yourself into a position where you could afford them? Or were there fertility issues? Or never found the right partner? Or just simply never had a strong desire to have kids, or even actively disliked the idea of having kids?

I will not benefit from this budget, my children are too old now. And I have never voted conservative in the past.
But I am over the moon to be paying taxes to better fund childcare. I simply can’t think of a better way to spend tax payer money:

• ensure a better start in life for our future population, the people who will one day shape this world
• ensure mothers can afford to go back to work and contribute to the economy
• help reduce the pay gap
• ensure all of us have a human beings to take care of us when we reach a stage in life when we can no longer be independent

I suspect this will pay for itself in the end. For those of you arguing that having children is a “lifestyle choice”, that’s just equivalent to saying the elderly who didn’t save enough to fund their care made a lifestyle choice - after all each one of us knows we’ll get old and sick one day. So, are you saying the elderly should also just suck it up and get no help if they haven’t saved enough to pay for it?

I was still paying off my student loan when I was 30….let alone starting to think about savings.
I think any of the boomer generation on here forgot how good they had it. Cheap houses, free uni, etc etc

To put it another way, its a benefit of the state you can use or not use. You pay money to the government in the form of tax and in return you get access to certain benefits and you might decide not to use all of them to the same level.

The government funds the NHS, but you may choose to go private for medical or dental care. You may simply not need it because you're healthy, but it's there. Government funds the fire service, you hopefully never need them but you fund them and they're there for those that do. Government funded or subsidised transport, you may not choose to travel by that mode of transport. As part of your taxes, the government is now subsidising childcare. Not everyone will choose to use it, but as a working tax payer it is one of the benefits available to you.

There’s a limit to how much you can save though as a salary can only stretch so far. Effectively you need to save through your 20s whilst also saving for house deposits and repaying students loans etc and probably starting on a low salary.

If people wait until they are financially able to afford 14 k a year some will no longer be fertile. It's a very odd society we live in where most jobs do not pay enough for people to reproduce and many of the most important jobs don't pay enough for people to be able to house themselves