To be worried about childcare reform Bill?

[NurseryNurse10]

I work in the nursery sector. Many of you know that it's proposed that the ratio will increase from 1/4 for two year olds to 1/5.
Aibu to say this will be the final nail in the coffin for nurseries and that it also doesn't solve the qualified staffing issue ? Many are unaware that legally you have to have a level 3 and a level 2 in EACH room. Nurseries are having massive issues recruiting qualified staff so this is surely going to make the issue even worse ?

It’s safe where you have children who will follow instructions and are easy to engage. It’s just that so many now have additional needs and they throw things and climb on furniture and are violent. That is definitely not safe in any group situation.

Exactly this! And while the parents are annoyed at the nurseries (shortsighted but understandable) and the nurseries think the parents want too much for too little (despite the fact it costs an arm and a leg!!) the government are getting away with wilfully underfunding crucial childhood care and early education. Marvellous.

Traditionally it's been the 3+ group that nurseries made actual money on because you only needed half the staff to meet ratios. You had babies and toddlers to 'grow on' to the big room.

In England the total number of under 8s is 6 the normal ratio says of which 3 can be under 5 and one of those under 1 if we self vary we must have a justifiable reason, enough physical space, risk assess and meet all needs then if anything goes wrong it's our fault if the Ofsted inspector doesn't agree are reasons were requires improvement.

But with a childminder it would be five two year olds and only one adult in the whole building. At nursery at least there are non ratio'd staff, and other people preparing the lunch / setting things up (at least at DDs nursery there is).
What happens to the five toddlers when the childminder is preparing lunch? How does she take five on a school run?
The ratio thing is mad either way, but I'd be leaning towards a nursery.

Whilst I agree with you mostly there is no requirement to do a 3 paragraph observation even once a month ...that's the nursery Ofsted do not look at observations....the requirement is that you know your charges ...which is no easy task with 5...or even 4 on top of covering etc.

No there is no plan to make it 5 2 year olds for childminders and going forward tighter guidance has been put on when they can go over 3 .....your also assuming childminders all work alone. In a nursery or school 1 qualified teacher could have 13 3 year olds that's scary.

But not all children are in all day every day so key workers have more children that the ratio of 4 that they are expected to know.

I'm a Registered Childminder (currently taking a break). There was a survey recently done by the Early Years Alliance.

"Just 2% of early years providers say that changes to early years ratios would result in lower fees for parents, according to our recent survey.

87% of nurseries and pre-school respondents said that they were opposed to the principle of relaxing ratios.

Of those respondents working in nursery and pre-schools settings who would not be responsible for any ratio change decisions, a huge 75% said that they would be likely to leave their current setting if ratios were relaxed there.

See the full results of our survey here ⬇️ www.eyalliance.org.uk/news/2022/05/relaxed-ratios-won%E2%80%99t-lower-childcare-costs-survey-suggests"

Childminders are broadly opposed to ratios being relaxed. For quite a while we've had the ability to care for more than 3 under 5's but only if we have the floor space, can safely manage it and parents agree. Even so, most tend not to vary their ratio.

The crux of the ratio issue is that government is selling it to parents that if ratios are relaxed then they will pay less fees, but settings have said they won't decrease fees as they will use the extra income to make up the shortfall in government funding.

One point missing from the government proposal is that you can only increase ratios if you have the floor space. For people not working in the childcare sector, there is a specific amount of space required per child. Ofsted inspectors have been known to get their tape measure out at inspections!

Childminder of 10yrs here 👋🏻
I have 3 under 5s and then two extra after school (8&6) I wouldn’t dream of taking 5 under 3s. There has been times where I have had four for brief periods (exceptional circumstances) and it meant we couldn’t leave the house. There is no way I would elect to do that on the regular.
Aside from being potentially dangerous, it will push valuable workers out the profession.
There is a nursery near me that can’t keep hold of its staff so every other month they have to let families down and tell them there is no longer any vacancies for them, leaving parents with little to no notice to sort out an alternative. I get so many calls asking if I have space for the following week. I have a waiting list of 33 children. It’s insane.
The funded hours need to better reflect the providers current daily fees (my borough pays £4.62 when I charge £6.50 per hour) and yes it’s term time only, I don’t need to take on funded children because I’m so full, which actually worries and frustrates me, because all children deserve to be in quality, stimulating environments.

I work with pre school age children. I have 14 key children and that's the same for all the staff in the room bar one
Our ratio is 1:8, and I don't think that's changing but it would be nice to only have 8 children to think about instead of 14. Obviously they're not all in the same time but it's still not as simple as just getting to know 8 children.

I’ve seen a lot of providers locally say that they won’t be changing the ratio. I agree with a previous poster that the better nurseries won’t and will use it as a selling point. My nursery is already over for the bulk of the day.

That was the point i was trying to make, i just didn't word it very well. I was very tired, had been in nursery for 11 hours, short staffed as per and someone rang in sick. Thank heavens it's the w/e

The 2 big chains I work at are both implementing the new ratio. Total disgrace in my opinion.

Are you saying that your nursery is working illegally?

@Bettyboop3 most nurseries are over ratio at some point, if not frequently. Most chains have got rid of bank staff so when people phone in ill they're often stuffed, even with management pitching in. Constant juggling act.

That hasn't been my experience. I am a level 3 qualified bank worker and do a lot of work with the big chains.
The unqualified bank workers though don't get as much work. Most of the nurseries I have been in have a lot of permanant, unqualified staff, some level 2's but barely any level 3's. Hence the need to use agency.

No, if you can't meet your legal ratios you have to send children home - not break the law.

And what happens- hypothetically- if a nursery were to ring around their parents and none, or not enough, were available to collect at that point in time?

You should be aware of your staffing levels that day before the children arrive, you don't get halfway through the day and suddenly realise the figures don't add up.